Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Hydra-Diep position

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 06:53:30 04/26/04

Go up one level in this thread


On April 24, 2004 at 21:42:21, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On April 24, 2004 at 18:46:45, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On April 24, 2004 at 17:42:30, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>when in analysis mode, crafty is not using a-symmetric king safety.
>>In game mode it does.
>>
>>So please use a-symmetric king safety instead of analysis mode to see whether it
>>finds it. As it uses that game mode when playing a game which is what counts.
>
>It finds it quickly in "game mode":

Of course we all play Nxf7. Your score is not convincing though.

Black is dead lost, despite what Cock de Gorter was saying.

I already knew i would lose after c7-c6 against Hydra as i knew it would go
attack like crazy at the kingside, which is the right plan after c6?? in
opening. He found it a great plan to shuffle with c6 b6 ba6, but he's living in
the 90s. When discussing it, we clearly had a difference of insight here.

It's 2004 now.

So i lost it.

You would get crushed with black too just showing +0.43 white up here.





>               10    10.11   0.23   1. Nxf7 Kxf7 2. f5 Bh4+ 3. Bf2 Bxf2+
>                                    4. Rxf2 exf5 5. gxf5 cxd4 6. fxg6+
>                                    Kxg6 7. Qe6+ Kg5 8. Qf5+ Kh6 9. Nxd5
>               10->  11.06   0.23   1. Nxf7 Kxf7 2. f5 Bh4+ 3. Bf2 Bxf2+
>                                    4. Rxf2 exf5 5. gxf5 cxd4 6. fxg6+
>                                    Kxg6 7. Qe6+ Kg5 8. Qf5+ Kh6 9. Nxd5
>                                    (s=2)
>               11    13.23   0.53   1. Nxf7 Kxf7 2. f5 Bh4+ 3. Bf2 Bxf2+
>                                    4. Rxf2 exf5 5. gxf5 cxd4 6. fxg6+
>                                    Kg7 7. Rf7+ Kxg6 8. Qf5+ Kh6 9. Qe6+
>                                    Kg5 10. Qf5+ Kh6 11. Nxd5
>               11->  16.94   0.53   1. Nxf7 Kxf7 2. f5 Bh4+ 3. Bf2 Bxf2+
>                                    4. Rxf2 exf5 5. gxf5 cxd4 6. fxg6+
>                                    Kg7 7. Rf7+ Kxg6 8. Qf5+ Kh6 9. Qe6+
>                                    Kg5 10. Qf5+ Kh6 11. Nxd5 (s=2)
>               12    33.40   0.55   1. Nxf7 Kxf7 2. f5 cxd4 3. Bxd4 Nf8
>                                    4. O-O-O Kg8 5. f6 Bc5 6. Bxc5 bxc5
>                                    7. Kb1 hxg4
>               12->  42.39   0.55   1. Nxf7 Kxf7 2. f5 cxd4 3. Bxd4 Nf8
>                                    4. O-O-O Kg8 5. f6 Bc5 6. Bxc5 bxc5
>                                    7. Kb1 hxg4
>               13     1:01   0.43   1. Nxf7 Kxf7 2. f5 cxd4 3. Bxd4 Bh4+
>                                    4. Kd1 hxg4 5. fxe6+ Kg8 6. Qxg4 Nf8
>                                    7. Rf7 Be7 8. h3 Rh5
>               13->   1:54   0.43   1. Nxf7 Kxf7 2. f5 cxd4 3. Bxd4 Bh4+
>                                    4. Kd1 hxg4 5. fxe6+ Kg8 6. Qxg4 Nf8
>                                    7. Rf7 Be7 8. h3 Rh5 (s=2)
>
>>
>>>On April 24, 2004 at 17:06:29, Mike Byrne wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 24, 2004 at 12:51:02, Will Singleton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>[D]rn1qk2r/p2nbp2/1p2p1p1/2ppP1Np/3P1PP1/P1N1B2Q/1PP4P/R3KR2 w Qkq - 0 16
>>>>>
>>>>>Nxf7 is a pretty speculative move, I don't think any other chess program would
>>>>>play this.  Turns out to be crushing, though.  Would be amazing if Hydra saw
>>>>>this tactically.
>>>>
>>>>White(1): rn1qk2r/p2nbp2/1p2p1p1/2ppP1Np/3P1PP1/P1N1B2Q/1PP4P/R3KR2 w Qkq - 0 1
>>>>
>>>>White(1): go
>>>>              time surplus   0.00  time limit 166:39 (166:39)/(30)
>>>>              time surplus   0.00  time limit 166:39 (166:39)/(30)
>>>>              depth   time  score   variation (1)
>>>>                1     0.00  -2.96   1. f5 Bxg5 2. Bxg5 Qxg5 3. fxe6 fxe6
>>>>                                    4. gxh5
>>>>                1     0.00   0.33   1. O-O-O
>>>>                1->   0.00   0.33   1. O-O-O
>>>>                2     0.00   0.24   1. O-O-O c4
>>>>                2->   0.02   0.24   1. O-O-O c4
>>>>                3     0.02   0.26   1. O-O-O Nc6 2. dxc5 Nxc5
>>>>                3->   0.03   0.26   1. O-O-O Nc6 2. dxc5 Nxc5 (s=2)
>>>>                4     0.05   0.18   1. O-O-O cxd4 2. Bxd4 Nc6 3. gxh5 Nxd4
>>>>                                    4. Rxd4 gxh5
>>>>                4->   0.06   0.18   1. O-O-O cxd4 2. Bxd4 Nc6 3. gxh5 Nxd4
>>>>                                    4. Rxd4 gxh5 (s=2)
>>>>                5     0.08     -1   1. O-O-O
>>>>                5     0.08  -0.50   1. O-O-O cxd4 2. Rxd4 Nc6 3. Rdd1 Bxg5
>>>>                                    4. fxg5 Ndxe5 5. gxh5 gxh5
>>>>                5     0.13  -0.03   1. dxc5 bxc5 2. gxh5 Rxh5 3. Qg3 Nc6
>>>>                5->   0.17  -0.03   1. dxc5 bxc5 2. gxh5 Rxh5 3. Qg3 Nc6
>>>>                6     0.22  -0.09   1. dxc5 bxc5 2. gxh5 Rxh5 3. Qg2 Bxg5
>>>>                                    4. fxg5 Nxe5 5. Bxc5 Rxg5
>>>>                6     0.42   0.12   1. Nb5 Nc6 2. dxc5 Nxc5 3. O-O-O a6
>>>>                                    4. Bxc5 axb5 5. Bxe7 Nxe7 6. gxh5 gxh5
>>>>                6->   0.53   0.12   1. Nb5 Nc6 2. dxc5 Nxc5 3. O-O-O a6
>>>>                                    4. Bxc5 axb5 5. Bxe7 Nxe7 6. gxh5 gxh5
>>>>                                    (s=3)
>>>>                7     0.88   0.06   1. Nb5 Nc6 2. O-O-O cxd4 3. Nxd4 Nxd4
>>>>                                    4. Bxd4 Bxg5 5. fxg5 Qxg5+ (s=2)
>>>>                7     1.14     +1   1. Nxf7!!
>>>>                7     1.19   0.62   1. Nxf7 Kxf7 2. f5 Bh4+ 3. Kd2 exf5
>>>>                                    4. gxf5 cxd4 5. fxg6+ Kxg6 <HT>
>>>>                7->   1.19   0.62   1. Nxf7 Kxf7 2. f5 Bh4+ 3. Kd2 exf5
>>>>                                    4. gxf5 cxd4 5. fxg6+ Kxg6 <HT> (s=4)
>>>>                8     1.30     +1   1. Nxf7!!
>>>>                8     1.45   1.18   1. Nxf7 Kxf7 2. f5 Bh4+ 3. Kd2 Ke8
>>>>                                    4. fxe6 Nf8 5. gxh5 cxd4 (s=3)
>>>>                8->   1.61   1.18   1. Nxf7 Kxf7 2. f5 Bh4+ 3. Kd2 Ke8
>>>>                                    4. fxe6 Nf8 5. gxh5 cxd4
>>>>                9     2.11   1.09   1. Nxf7 Kxf7 2. f5 Bh4+ 3. Kd1 Ke8
>>>>                                    4. fxe6 Nf8 5. gxh5 cxd4
>>>>                9->   2.28   1.09   1. Nxf7 Kxf7 2. f5 Bh4+ 3. Kd1 Ke8
>>>>                                    4. fxe6 Nf8 5. gxh5 cxd4
>>>>               10     4.22   1.25   1. Nxf7 Kxf7 2. f5 cxd4 3. fxe6+ Kg8
>>>>                                    4. Bxd4 Nf8 5. O-O-O Nxe6 6. Kb1
>>>>               10->   4.80   1.25   1. Nxf7 Kxf7 2. f5 cxd4 3. fxe6+ Kg8
>>>>                                    4. Bxd4 Nf8 5. O-O-O Nxe6 6. Kb1
>>>>               11    10.55   0.97   1. Nxf7 Kxf7 2. f5 Bh4+ 3. Bf2 Bxf2+
>>>>                                    4. Rxf2 cxd4 5. fxe6+ Ke7 6. Nxd5+
>>>>                                    Kxe6 7. Nf4+ Kxe5 8. Nxg6+ Kd6 9. Nxh8
>>>>                                    Qxh8 10. gxh5
>>>>               11->  15.31   0.97   1. Nxf7 Kxf7 2. f5 Bh4+ 3. Bf2 Bxf2+
>>>>                                    4. Rxf2 cxd4 5. fxe6+ Ke7 6. Nxd5+
>>>>                                    Kxe6 7. Nf4+ Kxe5 8. Nxg6+ Kd6 9. Nxh8
>>>>                                    Qxh8 10. gxh5
>>>>               12    22.22     +1   1. Nxf7!!
>>>>               12    25.53   1.37   1. Nxf7 Kxf7 2. f5 Bh4+ 3. Bf2 Bxf2+
>>>>                                    4. Rxf2 exf5 5. gxf5 cxd4 6. fxg6+
>>>>                                    Kg7 7. Qe6 dxc3 8. Rf7+ Kh6 9. g7+
>>>>                                    Kg5 10. gxh8=Q Qxh8
>>>>               12->  27.95   1.37   1. Nxf7 Kxf7 2. f5 Bh4+ 3. Bf2 Bxf2+
>>>>                                    4. Rxf2 exf5 5. gxf5 cxd4 6. fxg6+
>>>>                                    Kg7 7. Qe6 dxc3 8. Rf7+ Kh6 9. g7+
>>>>                                    Kg5 10. gxh8=Q Qxh8
>>>>?              13    45.02   1/41*  1. Nxf7
>>>>White(1): ?
>>>>              time=53.20  cpu=185%  mat=0  n=45328093  fh=90%  nps=852K
>>>>              ext-> chk=1736709 cap=179025 pp=128620 1rep=124260 mate=2772
>>>>              predicted=0  nodes=45328093  evals=17756672  50move=0
>>>>              endgame tablebase-> probes=0  hits=0
>>>>              SMP->  split=598  stop=84  data=5/128  cpu=1:38  elap=53.20
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>White(1): Nxf7
>>>>              time used:  53.20
>>>>
>>>>looks pretty sound to me ...
>>>
>>>Which program did you use
>>>
>>>Crafty19.12(1 cpu) can find it but it is not so speculative like the program
>>>that you used and does not see a score of more than +1 for white.
>>>
>>>older crafty(19.01) needs more time and finds it only with a negative score at
>>>depth 11 and 0.01 score at depth 12 and it may be interesting to know what
>>>changes did Bob to teach Crafty to solve it(I guess that the difference is
>>>result of evaluation changes and not search changes).
>>>
>>>
>>>Analysis under chessbase
>>>
>>>Hydra - Diep
>>>rn1qk2r/p2nbp2/1p2p1p1/2ppP1Np/3P1PP1/P1N1B2Q/1PP4P/R3KR2 w Qkq - 0 1
>>>
>>>Analysis by Crafty 19.12:
>>>
>>>16.0-0-0 Bxg5 17.fxg5 cxd4 18.Bxd4 Qxg5+
>>>  =  (0.18)   Depth: 1/16   00:00:00
>>>16.0-0-0 Bxg5 17.fxg5 cxd4 18.Bxd4 Qxg5+
>>>  =  (0.18)   Depth: 2/16   00:00:00
>>>16.0-0-0 Bxg5 17.fxg5 cxd4 18.Bxd4 Qxg5+
>>>  =  (0.18)   Depth: 3/16   00:00:00
>>>16.0-0-0 cxd4 17.Rxd4 Nc6 18.Rdd1 Bxg5 19.fxg5 Ndxe5 20.gxh5 Rxh5
>>>  ³  (-0.60)   Depth: 4/16   00:00:00
>>>16.dxc5 bxc5 17.gxh5 Rxh5 18.Qg3 Nc6
>>>  =  (-0.25)   Depth: 4/16   00:00:00
>>>16.Nf3 Nc6 17.0-0-0 c4
>>>  =  (-0.19)   Depth: 4/16   00:00:00
>>>16.Nf3 cxd4 17.Bxd4 Nc6 18.0-0-0 Qc7
>>>  =  (-0.14)   Depth: 5/20   00:00:00
>>>16.Nf3 cxd4 17.Nxd4 Bh4+ 18.Bf2 hxg4 19.Qxg4 Bxf2+ 20.Rxf2 Na6
>>>  =  (-0.14)   Depth: 6/20   00:00:00  120kN
>>>16.Nb5 Nc6 17.0-0-0 cxd4 18.Nxd4 Nxd4 19.Bxd4 Bxg5 20.fxg5 Qxg5+
>>>  =  (-0.09)   Depth: 6/20   00:00:01  250kN
>>>16.Nb5 a6 17.Nd6+ Bxd6 18.exd6 c4 19.0-0-0 Nf8 20.f5 Qxd6 21.fxe6 fxe6
>>>  =  (0.09)   Depth: 7/23   00:00:02  507kN
>>>16.Nb5 Nf8 17.dxc5 bxc5 18.0-0-0 a6 19.Nc3 Nbd7 20.Nf3
>>>  =  (0.10)   Depth: 8/26   00:00:07  1884kN
>>>16.Nxf7 Kxf7 17.f5 Bh4+ 18.Kd2 Nf8 19.fxe6+ Ke8 20.gxh5 cxd4
>>>  ²  (0.32)   Depth: 8/26   00:00:09  2447kN
>>>16.Nxf7 Kxf7 17.f5 Bh4+ 18.Kd1 cxd4 19.fxe6+ Kg8 20.Bxd4 Nf8 21.gxh5 Rxh5
>>>  ²  (0.46)   Depth: 9/26   00:00:11  3143kN
>>>16.Nxf7 Kxf7 17.f5 Bh4+ 18.Bf2 Bxf2+ 19.Rxf2 exf5 20.gxf5 cxd4 21.fxg6+ Kxg6
>>>22.Qe6+ Kg5 23.Rf5+ Kh4 24.Rf4+ Kg5 25.Qf5+ Kh6 26.Nxd5
>>>  =  (0.23)   Depth: 10/30   00:00:22  6492kN
>>>16.Nxf7 Kxf7 17.f5 Bh4+ 18.Bf2 Bxf2+ 19.Rxf2 exf5 20.gxf5 cxd4 21.fxg6+ Kg7
>>>22.Rf7+ Kxg6 23.Qe6+ Kg5 24.Qf5+ Kh6 25.Nxd5
>>>  ²  (0.53)   Depth: 11/33   00:00:50  14761kN
>>>16.Nxf7 Kxf7 17.f5 cxd4 18.Bxd4 Nf8 19.0-0-0 Ke8 20.f6 Bc5 21.Bxc5 bxc5 22.gxh5
>>>Rxh5
>>>  ²  (0.59)   Depth: 12/36   00:03:01  58302kN
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Hydra - Diep
>>>rn1qk2r/p2nbp2/1p2p1p1/2ppP1Np/3P1PP1/P1N1B2Q/1PP4P/R3KR2 w Qkq - 0 1
>>>
>>>Analysis by Crafty 19.01:
>>>
>>>16.dxc5 Nxc5
>>>  =  (-0.07)   Depth: 1/21   00:00:00
>>>16.dxc5 Nxc5
>>>  =  (-0.07)   Depth: 2/21   00:00:00
>>>16.dxc5 bxc5 17.Nf3
>>>  =  (-0.07)   Depth: 3/21   00:00:00
>>>16.dxc5 bxc5 17.gxh5 Rxh5 18.Qg3
>>>  =  (-0.03)   Depth: 4/21   00:00:00
>>>16.dxc5 bxc5 17.gxh5 Rxh5 18.Qg3 Nc6
>>>  ³  (-0.33)   Depth: 5/21   00:00:00
>>>16.Nb5 cxd4 17.Bxd4 Nc6 18.Nf3 Nxd4 19.Nfxd4
>>>  ³  (-0.32)   Depth: 5/21   00:00:00
>>>16.Nb5 cxd4 17.Bxd4 Nc6 18.Nf3 a6
>>>  ³  (-0.39)   Depth: 6/22   00:00:00  64kN
>>>16.Nf3 Nc6 17.dxc5 Nxc5 18.f5 exf5 19.gxf5
>>>  ³  (-0.36)   Depth: 6/22   00:00:00  114kN
>>>16.Nf3 Nc6 17.Nb5 cxd4 18.Nfxd4 Bh4+ 19.Bf2 Nxd4 20.Nxd4 hxg4 21.Qxg4
>>>  ³  (-0.42)   Depth: 7/25   00:00:01  236kN
>>>16.Nf3 Nc6 17.Nb5 cxd4 18.Nfxd4 Nxd4 19.Bxd4 Bh4+ 20.Bf2 Be7
>>>  ³  (-0.39)   Depth: 8/25   00:00:03  628kN
>>>16.Nf3 Nc6 17.Ne2 cxd4 18.Bxd4 a6 19.Ng3 Nxd4 20.Nxd4 Bc5
>>>  ³  (-0.53)   Depth: 9/29   00:00:07  1685kN
>>>16.Nb5 Nc6 17.f5 exf5 18.gxf5 Nxd4 19.Bxd4 cxd4 20.fxg6 fxg6
>>>  ³  (-0.52)   Depth: 9/29   00:00:10  2665kN
>>>16.dxc5 bxc5 17.gxh5 Rxh5 18.Qg2 Bxg5 19.fxg5 Nc6 20.Qf2 Ndxe5 21.0-0-0
>>>  ³  (-0.42)   Depth: 9/29   00:00:14  4043kN
>>>16.dxc5 bxc5 17.gxh5 Rxh5 18.Qg2 Bxg5 19.fxg5 Nc6 20.0-0-0 Ndxe5 21.Qe2 Nc4
>>>  ³  (-0.52)   Depth: 10/29   00:00:20  5930kN
>>>16.Nb5 Nc6 17.f5 Nxd4 18.fxe6 fxe6 19.Nxd4 Bxg5 20.Nxe6 Bh4+ 21.Bf2 hxg4 22.Bxh4
>>>Rxh4
>>>  =  (-0.10)   Depth: 10/29   00:00:34  10040kN
>>>16.Nb5 cxd4 17.Bxd4 Nc6 18.Qc3 Rc8 19.gxh5 Nb4 20.Nxf7 Kxf7 21.hxg6+ Kxg6
>>>22.Rg1+
>>>  µ  (-0.73)   Depth: 11/31   00:00:53  16689kN
>>>16.dxc5 bxc5 17.Qg2 Bxg5 18.fxg5 Nxe5 19.gxh5 Rxh5 20.Bxc5 Rxg5 21.Qe2 Nbd7
>>>22.h4
>>>  ³  (-0.44)   Depth: 11/31   00:01:34  30063kN
>>>16.Nf3 Nc6 17.0-0-0 Qc8 18.gxh5 Rxh5 19.Qg2 c4 20.Kb1 Qa6 21.Ng5
>>>  ³  (-0.34)   Depth: 11/31   00:02:17  43097kN
>>>16.Nxf7 Kxf7 17.f5 Bh4+ 18.Bf2 Bxf2+ 19.Rxf2 exf5 20.gxf5 cxd4 21.fxg6+ Kxg6
>>>22.Qe6+ Kg5 23.Qf5+ Kh6 24.Nxd5
>>>  =  (-0.07)   Depth: 11/31   00:02:42  51734kN
>>>16.Nxf7 Kxf7 17.f5 cxd4 18.fxe6+ Kg8 19.Bxd4 Bh4+ 20.Bf2 Bxf2+ 21.Rxf2 Nxe5
>>>22.g5 Ng4 23.Rd2
>>>  =  (0.01)   Depth: 12/33   00:03:09  60898kN
>>>
>>>Uri



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.