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Subject: Re: When to do a null move search - an experiment

Author: Ed Schröder

Date: 16:26:32 04/29/04

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On April 29, 2004 at 18:05:29, Omid David Tabibi wrote:

>On April 29, 2004 at 09:28:53, Ed Schröder wrote:
>
>>On April 29, 2004 at 07:37:23, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>[ snips ]
>>
>>>>This is all very poor Vince, I assume you don't play much with nowadays top
>>>>programs. From 1982 to 2001 Rebel won its games by positional understanding and
>>>>not by search and Rebel lost its games because it was outsearched. Today Rebel
>>>>isn't outsearched at all, it now loses its games because the current top
>>>>programs have a better positional understanding than Rebel.
>>>>
>>>>You should have a good look at the current tops, the positional progress has
>>>>been great the last years. To me it all seems to indicate (provided your search
>>>>is okay) the only way to make progress is to improve on chess knowledge. But
>>>>what's new, I already came to that conclusion in 1986 after some intensive talks
>>>>with Hans Berliner.
>>
>>>What i mean is Ed, is that you would not have accomplished the great results
>>>with Rebel which you managed, had you just searched with a fullwidth search +
>>>bunch of checks in qsearch.
>>
>>No of course not, brute force is silly, Rebel since day 1 has been a selective
>>program. But I am getting your point, in the days before the nullmove was
>>discovered Genius and Rebel had the best (static) selective search, a dominant
>>factor in their successes, is that what you meant to say? If so, it is true.
>>
>>If only Frans had kept his mouth shut to Chrilly (Chrilly leaking nullmove in
>>the ICCA journal) it is very likely Fritz would been the next Richard Lang still
>>dominating all the rating lists and WCC's for the last decade. But Frans didn't
>>and then all bets were off.


>Donninger published the article in 1993. Before that, there were two other
>publications dealing with null-move:

Yes, nullmove as we use it today, the other 2 articles not.

Ed


>Beal, D.F. (1989). Experiments with the null move. Advances in Computer Chess
>5, (Ed. D.F. Beal) , pp. 65--79.
>
>Goetsch, G. and Campbell, M.S. (1990). Experiments with the null-move heuristic.
>Computers, Chess, and Cognition, (Eds. T.A. Marsland and J. Schaeffer), pp.
>159--168.



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