Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 12:22:35 05/03/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 03, 2004 at 14:30:26, Matthew Hull wrote: >On May 03, 2004 at 14:22:01, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>On May 02, 2004 at 17:29:44, Dave Gomboc wrote: >> >>I'm sure the organisation can find an operator if Hyatt wants to join. >> >>Israel is full of chessplayers who are good operators. >> >>But i predict crafty will not end in the top 10, even when just 12 participants >>might be there. > > >OK. Show up on ICC for a match DIEP-crafty. If you beat crafty, then maybe you >finish in the top 10 at ECCC. > won't happen. The power of the mouth far exceeds the power of the program. public results would contradict verbal promises. Then there would be no fun... > > >> >>>On May 02, 2004 at 15:58:38, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On May 02, 2004 at 15:05:08, Dave Gomboc wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>>>It's the world championship. It has a 30-year pedigree. Sure, it's not as >>>>>>>>>scientifically valid as the SSDF list. Nonetheless, it is the most important >>>>>>>>>computer chess event on the planet, bar none. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Dave >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sorry, but this is wrong. Last time there were 16 participants. Last CCT had >>>>>>>>over 50. I'll take the over 50... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>You're ignoring the quality of the participants. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Dave >>>>>> >>>>>>Let's see. CCT had junior. New hiarcs. Crafty on a monster machine. >>>>>>Ruffian. I'd take the top 8 from the last CCT and compare them against >>>>>>the top 8 of the last WCCC.... Quality was very high at CCT6 too... >>>>> >>>>>If you're only going to look at the top eight, then the "50" doesn't mean much, >>>>>does it? >>>> >>>>Actually it does. You mentioned quality. Quality is at the top. Quantity is >>>>where the top and bottom are farther apart. >>>> >>>>The bottom of the WCCC was no better than the bottom of the CCT >>> >>>There are enough games at the WCCC that everyone with a chance in hell gets to >>>play at least three of the top four programs. Consequently. there's less >>>variability in the results at the top. I also think the average strength of >>>WCCC was considerably higher than that of CCT-6. Besides, quantity doesn't mean >>>much when you're trying to select a champion. >>> >>>>, but CCT had a >>>>+lot+ more players between the top and bottom. I think it is a tougher >>>>competition without the too-many-rounds-for-the-number-of-players-blues seen at >>>>the WCCC... >>> >>>Again, I disagree. The tournament with Shredder and Fritz in it is tougher (to >>>win), period. >>> >>>>> Most of those 50 have rather little against the top engines. >>>>>(Nonetheless, I think it's great that the strength variety in that tournament is >>>>>wide enough that everyone has a chance to win at least a couple of games. It >>>>>sounds like a fun event, and if I had a chess program, I'd probably play it in >>>>>CCT too.) >>>>> >>>>>As you correctly point out, the top of the field at CCT-6 was reasonably strong. >>>>> However, the top of the field at WCCC '03 was stronger -- and the top of the >>>>>field at WCCC '04 will be stronger again. >>>> >>>>>WCCC '03 top finishers: 9.5/11 Shredder, Fritz, 9/11 Junior, 8.5/11 Brutus, 6/11 >>>>>Green Light, Diep. >>>> >>>>Top of CCT6 had hiarcs, Junior, crafty (quad opteron), zappa, to name just 4 >>>>that are very tough. I suspect if you have a tournament with those 8 programs, >>>>_anything_ could happen. Either group, any program, could have won.... >>> >>>Keep reading... >>> >>>>>CCT-6 top finishers: 7/9 Crafty, Hiarcs, Zappa, 6.5/9 Junior, Ruffian, King of >>>>>Kings. >>> >>>I did include those in my message. ;-) >>> >>> >>>>>Also, IIRC, Junior at CCT-6 != Junior at WCCC: at CCT they weren't able to use >>>>>their normal opening book due to the automated restriction (some proprietary >>>>>data format incompatibility issue). >>>>> >>>>>It'd be nice to see Crafty at the WCCC. Is there some chance of getting >>>>>someone who will be attending to operate it? >>>> >>>>A few years ago they changed the rules to make that impossible. >>> >>>:-( Well, I still don't understand why it's impossible to get a week away from >>>classes. Most professors here just find substitute lecturers. Mind you, I see >>>from UAB's CS home page that the department is not all that large, which could >>>make it harder to find subs. >>> >>>>They then >>>>chose to not enforce the rule later, but when you think about it, who really >>>>cares nowadays. CCT had almost 4x the players. From a wider international >>>>group of participants. I think it will do just fine... >>> >>>Whatever floats your boat. :-( >>> >>>Dave
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