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Subject: Re: match diep-crafty

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 15:10:57 05/05/04

Go up one level in this thread


On May 05, 2004 at 16:56:31, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On May 03, 2004 at 15:22:35, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On May 03, 2004 at 14:30:26, Matthew Hull wrote:
>>
>>>On May 03, 2004 at 14:22:01, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 02, 2004 at 17:29:44, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>>>>
>>>>I'm sure the organisation can find an operator if Hyatt wants to join.
>>>>
>>>>Israel is full of chessplayers who are good operators.
>>>>
>>>>But i predict crafty will not end in the top 10, even when just 12 participants
>>>>might be there.
>>>
>>>
>>>OK.  Show up on ICC for a match DIEP-crafty.  If you beat crafty, then maybe you
>>>finish in the top 10 at ECCC.
>>>
>>
>>won't happen. The power of the mouth far exceeds the power of the program.
>>
>>public results would contradict verbal promises.  Then there would be no fun...
>
>I am missing any element of "what happens if i succeed".

Apparently.  What would happen is that you would no longer look like a total
idiot when talking about how strong your program is and how bad everything I do
is...  It would give you a _bit_ of credibility.  As would your citing the
reference to the JICCA paper I supposedly wrote but which _nobody_ can find a
reference to, a copy of, or a mention of _anywhere_.


>
>Can we play for money online at icc?
>
>You show up with crafty and choose your own hardware
>me  diep   : chosing my hardware
>
>conditions    : level like 90 30, but i'll agree with 90 0 too.
>kibitzin      : programs must kibitz
>openings book : your own; commercial books from kure + noomen + necchi not
>allowed.
>
>If you are interested we can appoint a date and setup a match.
>
>10 games is fine.
>date : somewhere in june or august to test my WCCC version
>
>Playing for a dollar or 1000 would be motivating.
>
>Let me know whether we can organize a match diep-crafty under such conditions.
>
>Best regards,
>Vincent

Let me know when you get past sucking your thumb and grow up a bit...

Crafty is _always_ available to play.  No thumb-sucking or other nonsense
required.  If you want to see it on faster hardware than my dual that can be
arranged...




>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On May 02, 2004 at 15:58:38, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 02, 2004 at 15:05:08, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>It's the world championship.  It has a 30-year pedigree.  Sure, it's not as
>>>>>>>>>>>scientifically valid as the SSDF list.  Nonetheless, it is the most important
>>>>>>>>>>>computer chess event on the planet, bar none.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Dave
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Sorry, but this is wrong.  Last time there were 16 participants.  Last CCT had
>>>>>>>>>>over 50.  I'll take the over 50...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You're ignoring the quality of the participants.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Dave
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Let's see.  CCT had junior.  New hiarcs.  Crafty on a monster machine.
>>>>>>>>Ruffian.  I'd take the top 8 from the last CCT and compare them against
>>>>>>>>the top 8 of the last WCCC....  Quality was very high at CCT6 too...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If you're only going to look at the top eight, then the "50" doesn't mean much,
>>>>>>>does it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Actually it does.  You mentioned quality.  Quality is at the top.  Quantity is
>>>>>>where the top and bottom are farther apart.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The bottom of the WCCC was no better than the bottom of the CCT
>>>>>
>>>>>There are enough games at the WCCC that everyone with a chance in hell gets to
>>>>>play at least three of the top four programs.  Consequently. there's less
>>>>>variability in the results at the top.  I also think the average strength of
>>>>>WCCC was considerably higher than that of CCT-6.  Besides, quantity doesn't mean
>>>>>much when you're trying to select a champion.
>>>>>
>>>>>>, but CCT had a
>>>>>>+lot+ more players between the top and bottom.  I think it is a tougher
>>>>>>competition without the too-many-rounds-for-the-number-of-players-blues seen at
>>>>>>the WCCC...
>>>>>
>>>>>Again, I disagree.  The tournament with Shredder and Fritz in it is tougher (to
>>>>>win), period.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most of those 50 have rather little against the top engines.
>>>>>>>(Nonetheless, I think it's great that the strength variety in that tournament is
>>>>>>>wide enough that everyone has a chance to win at least a couple of games.  It
>>>>>>>sounds like a fun event, and if I had a chess program, I'd probably play it in
>>>>>>>CCT too.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>As you correctly point out, the top of the field at CCT-6 was reasonably strong.
>>>>>>> However, the top of the field at WCCC '03 was stronger -- and the top of the
>>>>>>>field at WCCC '04 will be stronger again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>WCCC '03 top finishers: 9.5/11 Shredder, Fritz, 9/11 Junior, 8.5/11 Brutus, 6/11
>>>>>>>Green Light, Diep.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Top of CCT6 had hiarcs, Junior, crafty (quad opteron), zappa, to name just 4
>>>>>>that are very tough.  I suspect if you have a tournament with those 8 programs,
>>>>>>_anything_ could happen.  Either group, any program, could have won....
>>>>>
>>>>>Keep reading...
>>>>>
>>>>>>>CCT-6 top finishers: 7/9 Crafty, Hiarcs, Zappa, 6.5/9 Junior, Ruffian, King of
>>>>>>>Kings.
>>>>>
>>>>>I did include those in my message. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Also, IIRC, Junior at CCT-6 != Junior at WCCC: at CCT they weren't able to use
>>>>>>>their normal opening book due to the automated restriction (some proprietary
>>>>>>>data format incompatibility issue).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It'd be nice to see Crafty at the WCCC.  Is there some chance of getting
>>>>>>>someone who will be attending to operate it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A few years ago they changed the rules to make that impossible.
>>>>>
>>>>>:-(  Well, I still don't understand why it's impossible to get a week away from
>>>>>classes.  Most professors here just find substitute lecturers.  Mind you, I see
>>>>>from UAB's CS home page that the department is not all that large, which could
>>>>>make it harder to find subs.
>>>>>
>>>>>>They then
>>>>>>chose to not enforce the rule later, but when you think about it, who really
>>>>>>cares nowadays.  CCT had almost 4x the players.  From a wider international
>>>>>>group of participants.  I think it will do just fine...
>>>>>
>>>>>Whatever floats your boat. :-(
>>>>>
>>>>>Dave



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