Author: Ken Stone
Date: 07:23:59 05/07/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 07, 2004 at 04:19:21, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >On May 07, 2004 at 01:03:20, Jouni Uski wrote: > >>Has You looked for that afterword? There is very short comment to Kasparov >>vs. Junior and Kramnik vs. Fritz. Hsu still claims DB was superior to >>Fritz/Junior in tactics! Really? >> >>Jouni > >Let me quote Bruce Moreland: "i would love to have a shot at deep blue in blitz, >i tactically will destroy it". > >This was with Ferret at a 4x 400Mhz PII machine. > >I agree with Bruce. > >We must be realistic. Deep Blue needed 3 minutes to get to 10 ply in openings >positions. In endgames it finished 12 ply a lot. Most middlegame positions >however it searched 10 - 11 ply. > >On average they claimed a search depth of 12.2 ply but this is not iterative >depth but 'observed' depth. So the singular extension depth added to it (not >qsearch i guess). > >10 ply with a singular extensions and threat extensions and mate extensions is >in theory tactical very strong. Certainly for 1997 standards. > >However in hardware they cannot do any dangerous extension. Not only Hsu >explicitly mentions it, also Chrilly has done very clear statements that >hardware search is *that* inefficient that he had to forward prune in hardware >in a very primitive way. Same for Deep Blue. In its 4 ply of hardware search it >forward pruned, and *had* to of course. Both cannot use any dangerous extensions >in hardware search. Deep Blue triggers the last one at 4 ply depth left. > >This where software products pick up incredible tactics last few plies. They see >just near to shit last few plies. > >So you can extend a lot in mainsearch, but 10 ply - 4 = 6 ply. So within 6 ply, >it should see everything then. > >Let's be clear, this in 2004 is not a realistic scenario. Hsu still lives in the >80s. He did live there in 1997 still. His machine didn't even use nullmove which >by 1995 had been clearly proven for every idiot on the planet as the way to go. > >Frans Morsch *publicly* did statements about recursive nullmove. During dinner >every programmer has heard it, i'm sure of it. > >What Hsu writes is utter nonsense. No, what you write is utter nonsense....Hsu knows what he's talking about, but the so-called experts here, or at least some of them are "Out to Lunch" most of the time.
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