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Subject: Re: "3.1 comes from running a large number of positions several years ba

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 08:53:32 05/07/04

Go up one level in this thread


On May 07, 2004 at 07:03:55, Mikael Bäckman wrote:

>On May 07, 2004 at 04:30:09, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On May 06, 2004 at 12:45:43, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>Bob let's get realistic.
>>
>>BK is a flawed testset to test parallel speedups at.
>
>Why? I know nothing of parallel processing, but what in the BK makes it bad for
>parallel testing?
>
>/Mikael
>

Vincent's declaration.  Nothing else...


>
>
>>
>>What happened is. You took 4 positions from that to 'proof' your 3.1.
>>
>>That gets disproven then by GCP doing statistical math where you know really
>>less than a waterbird from. You do not even realize what the +- behind every
>>measured speedup means. In fact you never provide them yourself.
>>
>>GCP then is doing different tests at your quads and very clearly determines 2.8
>>using a-symmetric king safety.
>>
>>My 1.0 out of 2 speedup for crafty came of course from using tests with
>>symmetric king safety.
>>
>>But GCP using 30 positions gets down to 2.8 speedup.
>>
>>And he gets one time 3.2 and another time 3.0 for speedup when searching
>>fullwidth.
>>
>>a) this shows how poor your way of representing things is. You are just showing
>>things like you want them to see
>>
>>b) i do not believe a crap you did a honest test where at position 21 in BK the
>>crafty on average gets a 2.4 speedup when searching fullwidth. No matter how i
>>test fullwidth at position 21, speedups are better there for fullwidth using
>>asymmetric king safety.
>>
>>You did not do a honest testing to get to your numbers, even in those 4
>>positions and yet you deny GCP's testing at 30 positions which were honestly
>>done, to be true.
>>
>>This shows your true nature.
>>
>>
>>
>>>On May 06, 2004 at 12:19:13, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>
>>>>I hope you don't mean the ones blow.
>>>>
>>>>Are you still claiming you 'measured' 3.1 which supposedly contradicts
>>>>the 2.8 I measured?
>>>
>>>I don't know what any of that refers to.  My formula came from running the BK
>>>test (23 positions, excluding #1 an instant mate in 3).
>>>
>>>I am trying to get the disk set up and installed now that I sent to AMD for the
>>>last CCT event.  While I had access, I ran the BK test to get the data.  I had
>>>promised Martin that I would post the numbers.
>>>
>>>But you _really_ need a better vocabulary.  I have not tried to "contradict
>>>2.8".  I have _clearly_ said that the speedup varies and that 3.1 is the value
>>>suggested by a linear approximation fit to a non-linear function.
>>>
>>>I do _not_ understand the obsession with "is it 2.8 or 3.1"?  It could well be
>>>_both_.
>>>
>>>I have _always_ called this an approximation.  Let me get the log files and grep
>>>the times for Martin.  I'll put the logs on my ftp machine since they will be
>>>fairly long, if you want to see the opteron data for 1-4.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Return-Path: <gcp@sjeng.org>
>>>>>X-XS4ALL-To: <diep@maildrop.xs4all.nl>
>>>>>Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 09:14:59 +0200 (MEST)
>>>>>From: Gian-Carlo Pascutto <gcp@sjeng.org>
>>>>>X-Sender:  <giancarlo@garf.natrese.be>
>>>>>To: "Robert M. Hyatt" <hyatt@cis.uab.edu>
>>>>>Cc: <diep@xs4all.nl>
>>>>>Subject: Re: Parallel results so far
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Robert M. Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is the results:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------
>>>>>>            ---null=2/3---        ---null=off---
>>>>>> position   1cpu  4cpu S/U        1cpu  4cpu S/U
>>>>>> kopec 21   27.9  10.7 2.6        30.3  12.4 2.4
>>>>>> kopec 22   22.5   6.1 3.8        26.0   7.5 3.5
>>>>>> kopec 23   33.5  11.2 3.0        20.9   6.4 3.3
>>>>>> kopec 24   18.1   6.0 3.0        26.2   8.3 3.1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------
>>>>>> note.  all positions were searched for 30-45 seconds
>>>>>> with the last 1-cpu output used to measure how long
>>>>>> the 4-cpu search took to reach the same output (say
>>>>>> the end of a search, or a PV move and score displayed).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Vincent claimed "I never ran this test."  Thought I would
>>>>>> run it _again_ just to expose "baloney".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the conclusion from the above is
>>>>>
>>>>>Conlusions from the above? Howso?
>>>>>
>>>>>                speedup
>>>>>Nullmove          3.1      +- 0.25
>>>>>Non-nullmove      3.1      +- 0.25
>>>>>
>>>>>The standard errors (1SD) are way too huge to allow what
>>>>>you try to conclude. I measured a speedup of 2.85 with
>>>>>nullmove and 3.1 without, whereas your test wouldn't even
>>>>>be able to differentiate between the two.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you want to scientifically settle this,
>>>>>you'll need more and better data.
>>>>>
>>>>>(I couldn't find the CCC article reffered to earlier)
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>GCP



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