Author: Uri Blass
Date: 12:54:47 05/08/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 08, 2004 at 15:41:07, Uri Blass wrote: >On May 08, 2004 at 13:10:10, Sune Fischer wrote: > >>On May 08, 2004 at 12:39:03, Anthony Cozzie wrote: >> >>> >>>As I said before, the first two moves are "pass" moves. I don't think they are >>>actively bad, they just do nothing. GMs do not play pass moves. Current top >>>programs rarely play them. Deep Blue played 3 or 4 in a row ;) >> >>I think that depends on the position. >>Take a look at the Fritz/Junior games against Kramnik and Kasparov, I think they >>had plenty of pass moves from both programs, the Hedgehog just being one of >>them. >> >>>>Ruffian 1.0.5 UCI1 15 MB: >>>> 6 00:00 -0,01 Qa5c5 Ra1c1 Bc7d6 b3b4 Qc5b5 Nh4f3 >>>> 7 00:00 -0,05 Qa5c5 Ra1c1 e6e5 g3g4 Bh5g6 Nh4xg6 f7xg6 Kg1h1 >>>> 8 00:01 0,00 Qa5c5 Ra1c1 Qc5e7 Rc1a1 Qe7d6 Nh4f3 Qd6c5 Ra1c1 e6e5 >>>> 8 00:02 0,03 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 b3b4 Qa5a4 Nf3d4 g4xh3 Bg2xh3 Nf6g4 >>>> 9 00:02 0,04 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 b3b4 Qa5a4 Nd2b3 Nd7e5 Nf3xe5 >>>>10 00:04 0,05 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 Nf3d4 c6c5 Nd4e2 Bc7e5 Bb2xe5 >>>>Nd7xe5 Ne2f4 >>>>11 00:08 -0,04 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 c2c4 d5xc4 Nd2xc4 Qa5f5 e3e4 >>>>Qf5c5 Kg1h1 >>>>11 00:16 -0,02 Qa5c5 Ra1c1 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 d3d4 Qc5b5 c2c4 d5xc4 h3xg4 >>>>Nf6xg4 Rc1xc4 >>>> >>>>How deep is the fail-low for Zappa on g5? >>>>A "blunder" should be >1 pawn, IMO. >>> >>>Ruffian plays g5 for all of 8 seconds :) Deep Blue had 3 minutes to think. >> >>Here is a bit longer analysis, it switches back: >> >>Ruffian 1.0.5 UCI1 62 MB: >> 7 00:00 -0,05 Qa5c5 Ra1c1 e6e5 g3g4 Bh5g6 Nh4xg6 f7xg6 Kg1h1 >> 8 00:01 0,00 Qa5c5 Ra1c1 Qc5e7 Rc1a1 Qe7d6 Nh4f3 Qd6c5 Ra1c1 e6e5 >> 8 00:02 0,03 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 b3b4 Qa5a4 Nf3d4 g4xh3 Bg2xh3 Nf6g4 >> 9 00:03 0,04 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 b3b4 Qa5a4 Nd2b3 Nd7e5 Nf3xe5 >>10 00:04 0,05 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 Nf3d4 c6c5 Nd4e2 Bc7e5 Bb2xe5 >>Nd7xe5 Ne2f4 >>11 00:09 -0,04 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 c2c4 d5xc4 Nd2xc4 Qa5f5 e3e4 >>Qf5c5 Kg1h1 >>11 00:16 -0,02 Qa5c5 Ra1c1 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 d3d4 Qc5b5 c2c4 d5xc4 h3xg4 >>Nf6xg4 Rc1xc4 >>12 00:38 -0,04 Qa5c5 g3g4 Bh5g6 Ra1c1 Bg6h7 Kg1h1 e6e5 Nh4f5 Bh7xf5 g4xf5 >>g7g6 f5xg6 f7xg6 Rf1g1 >>12 00:48 0,01 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 h3xg4 Bh5xg4 d3d4 Qa5b5 a3a4 Qb5b6 e3e4 d5xe4 >>Nf3h2 Bg4f5 Nd2xe4 >>13 01:38 -0,02 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 Nf3d4 Qa5b6 f2f3 Ng4f6 g3g4 >>Bh5g6 Kg1h1 c6c5 Nd4e2 >>14 04:02 0,03 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 e3e4 e6e5 e4xd5 c6xd5 c2c4 Ra8e8 >>Nf3h4 Nd7f6 c4xd5 Nf6xd5 Nh4f5 > >I can add that movei likes g5 as the best move for black so I do not believe >that it is a blunder. > >The people who claim that it is a blunder did not show how to beat chess program >after this blunder so I cannot take their analysis as serious. > >I will take analysis of GM's as serious if after claiming that a move is a >blunder they will give a game to show how they beat chess programs after the >blunder. > >Uri I can add that kasparov won the game but I do not claim that deeper blue did no mistakes but only that I do not believe that g5 was one of them and the question is if humans can beat computers when computers do not repeat the mistakes that deeper blue did later. Movei still likes g5 even at depth 14 so it seems to me not to be a bad move. I did not teach movei to have big panalty against pushing pawns near the king and there are games when movei wins by pushing the pawns near the king forward. Here is one of them against mchess http://f50.parsimony.net/forum200336/messages/1757.htm
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