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Subject: Re: Behind Deep Blue: 3rd print with new Hsu afterword

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 17:25:41 05/08/04

Go up one level in this thread


On May 08, 2004 at 18:55:16, Djordje Vidanovic wrote:

>On May 08, 2004 at 12:14:42, Anthony Cozzie wrote:
>
>>On May 08, 2004 at 11:51:12, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On May 08, 2004 at 10:50:57, Anthony Cozzie wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 08, 2004 at 07:18:27, Vasik Rajlich wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 08, 2004 at 04:34:40, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You are absulutely right.
>>>>>>>>It is obvious that humans already solved chess so they know if a move is a
>>>>>>>>blunder or not a blunder so you can be sure that all the question marks are
>>>>>>>>correct.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It is also obvious that the number of mistakes is what decides the game so if
>>>>>>>>your opponent did 2 mistakes you can let yourself to do one mistake like letting
>>>>>>>>him to force mate and you are not going to lose.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>:_(
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You know, Uri, I have never seen you do anything but post how other people are
>>>>>>>wrong (never with any reasons of course).  Many other people have noticed your
>>>>>>>unending flood of negativity.  It is difficult to consider this post as anything
>>>>>>>other than a flame.  It appears I am going to have to take off the kid gloves
>>>>>>>and dispose of you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Isn't it natural to only post if you disagree?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Anyway, I suspect Uri has a point.
>>>>>>It's not unusual for computers to play "unatural" moves, just think of the
>>>>>>Hedgehog Junior played against Kasparov.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>All the time the GM's were saying how strange Junior's moves were, how "it
>>>>>>showed no understanding of the position" blah blah blah.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So please explain why Kasparov suddenly had to fight for a draw after 10
>>>>>>questionmark moves from Junior!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-S.
>>>>>
>>>>>I never thought this day would come - but I agree with Uri here. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>Sports aren't about beautiful play. Sports are about winning. If someone is
>>>>>playing ugly, and winning, then it's your sense of aesthetics which needs to be
>>>>>reviewed.
>>>>>
>>>>>Computers have a long history of winning ugly. In the recent Fritz-Kasparov and
>>>>>Junior-Kasparov matches, the machines made many many more "mistakes" (according
>>>>>to human opinion) than Kasparov. But - if these mistakes aren't punished - are
>>>>>they really mistakes? Is it a mistake to leave Shaq wide open for three point
>>>>>shots? (Or send him to the line for "free" throws?) It's impossible to speak
>>>>>about objectivity here. You can only look at the results.
>>>>>
>>>>>Vas
>>>>
>>>>Let's take a look at some of the moves the annotator didn't like:
>>>>
>>>>[D]r2q1rk1/pp1n1ppp/2pbpn2/3p3b/8/1P1PPNPP/PBPN1PB1/R2Q1RK1 b - - 0 10
>>>>
>>>>Zappa plays the obvious 10 ...e5.  Deep Blue played 10 ...h6.  I won't call this
>>>>a bad move, but it's clearly a pass move.
>>>
>>>That isn't very convincing.  Did you look at _your_ PV?  move 4?  :)
>>>
>>>Order doesn't mean much to alpha/beta as it scores positions, not moves as they
>>>are played.
>>>
>>>First impression is that h6 and e5 transpose to the _same_ position...
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I will accept that my 4 ply search plays pass moves some of the time :)  Zappa
>>uses pure R=3 now, and perhaps the evaluation isn't quite good enough for it.
>>
>>anthony
>
>
>
>In my opinion 10...h6 is not merely a pass move or waste of time.  White may
>plan to push the g-pawn to g4 and drive the black bishop to g6 aiming to
>exchange his knight for the bishop later, playing the knight to h4.  Thus
>10...h6 gives black refuge.  Besides, the bishop positioned at h7 would be very
>useful later on, perhaps after the push you mentioned that Zappa plays right
>away, exerting pressure on the e4 square...
>
>Just an idea.  One glance at the diagram... Caveat emptor :-)

I tend to agree with Seirawan on this matter more, after h6 you can resign here
positionally with black.





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