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Subject: Re: Rookie Operator Test MCP7 200mmx vs 450PII

Author: blass uri

Date: 16:46:14 12/16/98

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On December 16, 1998 at 16:27:49, Komputer Korner wrote:

>On December 16, 1998 at 02:44:38, Christophe Theron wrote:
>
>>On December 15, 1998 at 23:41:50, Kevin Mulloy wrote:
>>
>>>Gentlemen,
>>>     I am in the process of testing MPC7 in a 200 MMX 80 meg RAM machine against
>>>MCP7 in a 450PII 256 meg RAM machine.  In the 200, the MCP7 engine calculates
>>>aprox 1,250,000 positions per minute.  In the 450, about 2,600,000 positions per
>>>min (slightly more than double).  I have adjusted the times accordingly -- I
>>>give the 200 2 min per move and the 450 1 min per move.  I thought that this
>>>should be a fairly even match with a slight edge to the 450.  After 20 games,
>>>the 200 leads 15-5??  I was not testing this fine program against itself to try
>>>to produce a "winning" machine.  I just wanted an easy way to handicap one
>>>machine so that the 200 and the 450 would play fairly even chess when I matched
>>>different programs against Mcp7.  I realize that I have a very small sample here
>>>-- could someone advise me on the proper set up that I should be looking for to
>>>even these 2 machines out.  Also, If my approach to this problem is OK, how much
>>>bigger should the sample be to give a good indication of strength?  Thank you,
>>>Kevin Mulloy
>>
>>My opinion is that you should not use an average time per move, but use a given
>>time for the whole game, or classical time controls (A moves in B minutes, then
>>C moves in D minutes, and so on).
>>
>>Depending on the program, average time per move is sometimes completely erratic.
>>Maybe it is the case with MChess?
>>
>>Also, if you want such a match to be fair, you have to disable thinking on
>>opponents time. The trouble here is that not doing so should have given an
>>advantage to the fastest computer, so really I cannot explain your result.
>>
>>Strange...
>>
>>
>>    Christophe
>
>The problem of testing the same program against each other on 2 different
>machines with different speeds (even if you handicap them fairly) is well known.
>The only way it would be fair is if the program was a stict brute forcer with no
>extensions and no pruning nor null move nor selective search of any kind.

I think that the only way to do it fair is when you disable thinking at the
opponent's time

I do not think that it is relevant if the program use extensions or does not use
extensions.

>However  all programs have some form of pruning so the test is biased. Usually
>the bias would be for the faster machine if both had the same time control in
>that the expected win of the faster machine would be more than proportional to
>the speed advantage. In this case since you handicapped with a longer time
>control the bias is towards the longer time control.

I do not understand it.
If the slower machine(with the long time control) does not look at more nodes
per move then I do not understand why do you think that it has an advantage.

Uri

 Unfortunately at short time
>controls, there isn't a perfect correlation between search depth and time
>control when measuring on different cpus. Hash tables are one example that
>screws up your search depth handicapping. It makes me think that M-Chess is a
>larger selective pruner than we have all thought. However your sample is way too
>small to get any indication of bias.
>--
>Komputer Korner



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