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Subject: Re: Behind Deep Blue: 3rd print with new Hsu afterword

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 08:00:10 05/10/04

Go up one level in this thread


On May 10, 2004 at 10:21:21, Sune Fischer wrote:

After g5? it is game over simply. resign it and move on to the next game :)



>On May 10, 2004 at 09:42:09, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>>I think the original intent was to show that DB was not at the level of "modern"
>>>programs _because_ it played g5. Now we have other programs playing it too so
>>>this bit of "proof" goes out the window, IMO.
>>
>>However it played like 7 very poor moves in game 1 and that for every game
>>except game 6 and game 2 it just made a few (shuffle moves are not good but are
>>not losing the game sometimes).
>
>This doesn't prove anything other than DB didn't play perfect chess, which we
>already strongly suspect for purely mathematical reasons.
>
>What about the Kasparov-Fritz game where Kasparov pawn stormed the queenside and
>fritz shuffled around for about 20 moves doing absolutely nothing.
>It refused to push the kingside pawns, perhaps DB would have played better it
>didn't seem afraid of pushing pawns :)
>
>If you want to methodicly produce some evidence that DB was worse than current
>top crop, then you have to go through some of their games with the same level of
>scrutiny.
>
>>Antonnie just quoted here what was wrong in his eyes, but there is a shitload of
>>other very poor moves.
>
>Well maybe Anthony is no better than me then (no offence:), but IIRC it was you
>who said black could resign after g5, or something to that effect.
>I read that as though you agreed with Anthony that g5 was a blunder, but perhaps
>you just meant that g5 was symptom of how bad black is?
>
>>Let me just first tell you that deep blue was very soon out of book.
>>
>>Starting with move 3 where it already makes a mistake :
>>
>>3 .. Nd7? best is bxf3 diep plays bxf3 and not nd7.
>>10.. h6?  very poor move. lucky diep doesn't play that. 10..e5 looks better
>>          but important is to avoid h6
>>11.. Qa5? very poor move, better is for example Qe7
>>12.. Bc7? very poor move. A real NULLMOVE
>>13.. g5?  very poor move now there is no way to escape from a zero against
>>          even poor shuffle players
>>16.. Qb6  this is not the best move
>>22.. g4?
>>
>>I hope you realize Seirawan had an easy job commenting on these games. The bad
>>moves made are *so* poor, that he has hardly time to give better alternatives
>>for choice mistakes like 16..Qb6.
>>
>>I am sure you do not realize it, but if you play 2 moves like Qb6 against
>>kasparov in a normal game you're dead.
>>
>>Deep Blue plays however 6 completely losing moves in this game so all the poor
>>moves we do not even discuss here. We just discuss at the utmost beginners level
>>here. Not even at the higher levels where making wrong choices loses already.
>
>Well I don't know if they are completely losing, again it's the general
>assessments versus concrete analysis.
>
>-S.
>>Best regards,
>>Vincent



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