Author: Dann Corbit
Date: 15:58:45 05/12/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 12, 2004 at 18:03:06, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>On May 12, 2004 at 17:23:40, Robert Pawlak wrote:
>
>>See my site for more info:
>>
>>www.chessassistance.com
>>
>>Bob
>
>
>As long as there are positions like this one which requires 10 men TBs, Human
>will always be better :-)
>
>Most programs don't even have a clue of what the correct plan is, and for the
>first 30 moves it analyze this position as even, but any IM or Above will
>realize that White is winning from the starting position.
>
>[Event "Shootout (Shredder8, 120'/40+60'/20+30')"]
>[Site "?"]
>[Date "????.??.??"]
>[Round "?"]
>[White "New game"]
>[Black "?"]
>[Result "1-0"]
>[SetUp "1"]
>
>[D]8/8/3k4/3p4/3PpN2/4P1B1/3qBK2/8 w - - 0 1
>
>
>1. Ng6+ {[%eval 59,22] [%emt 0:04:19]} Kd7 {[%eval 58,24] [%emt 0:03:45]} 2.
>Bh4 {(Bb8) [%eval 64,23] [%emt 0:03:14]} Ke6 {[%eval 59,24] [%emt 0:02:47]} 3.
>Bg3 {(Nf4+) [%eval 66,23] [%emt 0:05:16]} Qc3 {
>(Qa2) [%eval 111,23] [%emt 0:17:07]} 4. Bg4+ {
>(Nf4+) [%eval 66,20] [%emt 0:02:23]} Kf6 {[%eval 65,22] [%emt 0:00:50]} 5. Nf4
>{[%eval 78,22] [%emt 0:02:11]} Kg5 {[%eval 70,23] [%emt 0:05:02]} 6. Bd1 {
>(Be2) [%eval 80,22] [%emt 0:02:29]} Qc4 {(Qa3) [%eval 168,23] [%emt 0:05:32]}
>7. Be2 {[%eval 166,23] [%emt 0:03:25]} Qb3 {(Qc6) [%eval 192,24] [%emt 0:04:05]
>} 8. Bh2 {[%eval 186,24] [%emt 0:04:36]} Kf6 {[%eval 189,23] [%emt 0:02:48]} 9.
>Bg1 {[%eval 205,23] [%emt 0:02:15]} Ke7 {(Kg5) [%eval 207,24] [%emt 0:02:05]}
>10. Bg4 {[%eval 194,24] [%emt 0:02:23]} Qc2+ {
>(Kd6) [%eval 199,23] [%emt 0:02:42]} 11. Kg3 {
>(Kf1) [%eval 207,24] [%emt 0:02:05]} Qc4 {(Kd6) [%eval 206,22] [%emt 0:02:00]}
>12. Be6 {(Kg2) [%eval 208,23] [%emt 0:03:11]} Qc1 {
>[%eval 212,24] [%emt 0:02:11]} 13. Kg2 {[%eval 213,24] [%emt 0:02:49]} Qd1 {
>(Qd2+) [%eval 218,24] [%emt 0:03:20]} 14. Bxd5 {[%eval 215,24] [%emt 0:03:07]}
>Qg4+ {[%eval 204,24] [%emt 0:04:19]} 15. Kf1 {
>(Kf2) [%eval 204,25] [%emt 0:01:12]} Qf3+ {(Qd1+) [%eval 204,22] [%emt 0:01:06]
>} 16. Ke1 {[%eval 202,25] [%emt 0:02:21]} Qh1 {[%eval 202,25] [%emt 0:01:46]}
>17. Ne2 {[%eval 201,25] [%emt 0:02:56]} Kd6 {[%eval 200,26] [%emt 0:02:36]} 18.
>Bf7 {(Bb3) [%eval 208,24] [%emt 0:06:40]} Ke7 {[%eval 207,22] [%emt 0:01:47]}
>19. Ba2 {(Bc4) [%eval 209,23] [%emt 0:04:09]} Kd6 {
>(Qh5) [%eval 213,23] [%emt 0:02:27]} 20. Kd1 {
>(Bb1) [%eval 216,24] [%emt 0:02:37]} Qg2 {(Kd7) [%eval 212,24] [%emt 0:01:50]}
>21. Ke1 {(Bb3) [%eval 211,24] [%emt 0:02:59]} Qh1 {
>[%eval 215,23] [%emt 0:02:20]} 22. Bf7 {(Bb1) [%eval 209,23] [%emt 0:03:25]}
>Kc7 {(Kc6) [%eval 209,23] [%emt 0:02:08]} 23. Bb3 {
>[%eval 211,25] [%emt 0:02:54]} Kd6 {[%eval 210,25] [%emt 0:02:23]} 24. Bc4 {
>(Ba4) [%eval 212,22] [%emt 0:06:48]} Kc6 {(Qh5) [%eval 210,23] [%emt 0:02:18]}
>25. Be6 {(Kd2) [%eval 211,22] [%emt 0:03:47]} Kd6 {
>[%eval 209,23] [%emt 0:02:19]} 26. Bc4 {(Bb3) [%eval 210,23] [%emt 0:02:52]}
>Ke7 {[%eval 211,23] [%emt 0:02:44]} 27. Kd2 {[%eval 210,23] [%emt 0:00:34]} Qg2
>{[%eval 206,23] [%emt 0:03:03]} 28. Ke1 {(Bb3) [%eval 206,23] [%emt 0:04:54]}
>Qh1 {(Qg5) [%eval 207,24] [%emt 0:03:05]} 29. Kd2 {
>(Kd1) [%eval 207,23] [%emt 0:02:11]} Qg2 {[%eval 205,22] [%emt 0:02:12]} 30.
>Kc2 {(Bb5) [%eval 201,22] [%emt 0:02:59]} Kd6 {[%eval 206,23] [%emt 0:01:57]}
>31. Bb5 {[%eval 205,23] [%emt 0:01:22]} Kd5 {
>(Ke7) [%eval 206,23] [%emt 0:02:23]} 32. Kd1 {
>(Kd2) [%eval 208,22] [%emt 0:01:41]} Qf1+ {[%eval 209,23] [%emt 0:02:37]} 33.
>Kd2 {[%eval 209,24] [%emt 0:03:59]} Qg2 {[%eval 213,24] [%emt 0:03:54]} 34. Ke1
>{[%eval 213,24] [%emt 0:03:32]} Kd6 {(Qh1) [%eval 209,24] [%emt 0:02:10]} 35.
>Bc4 {[%eval 209,23] [%emt 0:02:11]} Qh1 {[%eval 205,22] [%emt 0:01:54]} 36. Bb3
>{(Kd1) [%eval 207,23] [%emt 0:01:30]} Ke7 {[%eval 208,23] [%emt 0:01:20]} 37.
>Bd1 {[%eval 208,23] [%emt 0:01:38]} Kd6 {(Qh5) [%eval 205,23] [%emt 0:03:27]}
>38. Ba4 {[%eval 204,23] [%emt 0:01:39]} Ke7 {
>(Ke6) [%eval 206,23] [%emt 0:01:39]} 39. Kd1 {
>(Kd2) [%eval 207,24] [%emt 0:02:03]} Qg2 {[%eval 206,26] [%emt 0:01:29]} 40.
>Ke1 {(Bb3) [%eval 209,25] [%emt 0:02:43]} Qh1 {
>(Qg5) [%eval 202,24] [%emt 0:01:04]} 41. Bb3 {
>(Bc2) [%eval 206,24] [%emt 0:03:19]} Kd7 {(Kd6) [%eval 202,26] [%emt 0:02:55]}
>42. Bc2 {[%eval 202,25] [%emt 0:03:19]} Kc6 {[%eval 200,24] [%emt 0:00:42]} 43.
>Kd2 {(Ba4+) [%eval 200,24] [%emt 0:02:01]} Qg2 {[%eval 197,26] [%emt 0:01:16]}
>44. Ba4+ {[%eval 202,24] [%emt 0:03:34]} Kd6 {[%eval 203,25] [%emt 0:01:35]}
>45. Ke1 {(Bd1) [%eval 202,26] [%emt 0:03:54]} Qh1 {
>[%eval 202,24] [%emt 0:02:29]} 46. Kd2 {(Bd1) [%eval 208,23] [%emt 0:02:45]}
>Qg2 {[%eval 202,24] [%emt 0:00:36]} 47. Ke1 {
>(Bb3) [%eval 207,25] [%emt 0:02:35]} Qh1 {[%eval 203,25] [%emt 0:03:33]} 48.
>Bb3 {(Kd1) [%eval 203,24] [%emt 0:01:54]} Kc6 {[%eval 204,26] [%emt 0:04:25]}
>49. Kd1 {(Bc2) [%eval 209,22] [%emt 0:02:53]} Qf3 {
>(Kc7) [%eval 203,22] [%emt 0:00:52]} 50. Ke1 {
>(Ba4+) [%eval 207,22] [%emt 0:05:07]} Qh1 {[%eval 198,23] [%emt 0:02:52]} 51.
>Kd1 {(Kd2) [%eval 200,21] [%emt 0:01:47]} Kd6 {[%eval 198,27] [%emt 0:07:12]}
>52. Ba2 {(Kd2) [%eval 189,24] [%emt 0:03:04]} Kd7 {
>(Qg2) [%eval 190,24] [%emt 0:06:22]} 53. Bc4 {
>(Kd2) [%eval 182,24] [%emt 0:05:05]} Kd6 {[%eval 174,22] [%emt 0:03:46]} 54.
>Kd2 {[%eval 182,22] [%emt 0:02:39]} Qg2 {(Ke7) [%eval 160,22] [%emt 0:03:14]}
>55. Bb5 {(Bb3) [%eval 163,22] [%emt 0:04:30]} Ke7 {
>[%eval 154,20] [%emt 0:02:30]} 56. Ke1 {(Bc6) [%eval 149,20] [%emt 0:02:15]}
>Qh1 {(Qh3) [%eval 131,21] [%emt 0:04:49]} 57. Kd2 {
>(Kd1) [%eval 173,19] [%emt 0:01:15]} Qh5 {(Kd6) [%eval 107,22] [%emt 0:02:31]}
>58. Nc3 {(Ba4) [%eval 150,21] [%emt 0:01:27]} Qf3 {
>[%eval 128,21] [%emt 0:01:59]} 59. Ne2 {(Bc6) [%eval 129,19] [%emt 0:01:28]}
>Qh5 {(Qg2) [%eval 134,21] [%emt 0:06:01]} 60. Nc3 {
>(Ba4) [%eval 136,21] [%emt 0:02:28]} Qf3 {(Qg5) [%eval 154,18] [%emt 0:02:05]}
>61. d5 {[%eval 162,19] [%emt 0:00:47]} Qh1 {(Qg3) [%eval 141,19] [%emt 0:00:54]
>} 62. Bf2 {(Ne2) [%eval 161,20] [%emt 0:00:44]} Qg2 {
>[%eval 173,20] [%emt 0:00:42]} 63. Nd1 {[%eval 178,20] [%emt 0:00:52]} Kd6 {
>[%eval 174,20] [%emt 0:00:46]} 64. Bc4 {[%eval 168,20] [%emt 0:00:33]} Kc5 {
>[%eval 180,20] [%emt 0:00:49]} 65. Bb3 {[%eval 179,21] [%emt 0:00:42]} Qf1 {
>(Qh2) [%eval 179,20] [%emt 0:00:23]} 66. Bc2 {[%eval 188,20] [%emt 0:00:41]}
>Qg2 {[%eval 195,20] [%emt 0:00:50]} 67. Kc1 {[%eval 194,21] [%emt 0:00:49]} Qh1
>{[%eval 191,21] [%emt 0:00:52]} 68. Bb3 {(Kb2) [%eval 192,19] [%emt 0:00:44]}
>Kb4 {(Qg2) [%eval 205,19] [%emt 0:00:45]} 69. Ba2 {
>[%eval 204,19] [%emt 0:00:38]} Kc5 {[%eval 192,19] [%emt 0:00:36]} 70. Bg3 {
>[%eval 199,20] [%emt 0:00:38]} Qg2 {[%eval 195,20] [%emt 0:00:44]} 71. Nc3 {
>[%eval 192,20] [%emt 0:00:41]} Kb4 {[%eval 192,20] [%emt 0:01:07]} 72. Be1 {
>[%eval 197,19] [%emt 0:00:39]} Qf1 {[%eval 196,19] [%emt 0:00:24]} 73. Kd1 {
>[%eval 202,19] [%emt 0:00:16]} Qd3+ {[%eval 212,19] [%emt 0:00:54]} 74. Bd2 {
>[%eval 219,21] [%emt 0:00:33]} Qf1+ {[%eval 214,22] [%emt 0:00:38]} 75. Kc2 {
>[%eval 215,23] [%emt 0:00:53]} Qd3+ {[%eval 215,23] [%emt 0:00:59]} 76. Kc1 {
>[%eval 215,23] [%emt 0:01:03]} Kc5 {[%eval 230,21] [%emt 0:00:26]} 77. Bb1 {
>[%eval 230,19] [%emt 0:00:40]} Qf1+ {[%eval 212,17] [%emt 0:00:08]} 78. Kc2 {
>(Kb2) [%eval 231,18] [%emt 0:00:31]} Qg1 {(Qh1) [%eval 220,17] [%emt 0:00:07]}
>79. Kb3 {(Ba2) [%eval 214,18] [%emt 0:01:00]} Qh2 {
>[%eval 223,16] [%emt 0:00:12]} 80. Nxe4+ {[%eval 227,17] [%emt 0:00:42]} Kxd5 {
>[%eval 227,18] [%emt 0:00:54]} 81. Bb4 {[%eval 228,17] [%emt 0:00:22]} Ke6 {
>(Qc7) [%eval 228,15] [%emt 0:00:37]} 82. Nc5+ {[%eval 227,14] [%emt 0:00:11]}
>Ke5 {[%eval 228,16] [%emt 0:00:41]} 83. Bc3+ {[%eval 229,15] [%emt 0:00:25]}
>Kd5 {[%eval 228,17] [%emt 0:00:20]} 84. Bd4 {[%eval 231,17] [%emt 0:00:37]} Qd2
>{[%eval 241,17] [%emt 0:00:38]} 85. Be4+ {[%eval 243,18] [%emt 0:00:28]} Kd6 {
>[%eval 243,7] [%emt 0:00:00]} 86. Kc4 {[%eval 241,18] [%emt 0:00:43]} Qa2+ {
>[%eval 241,18] [%emt 0:00:46]} 87. Kb5 {[%eval 246,17] [%emt 0:00:22]} Qg8 {
>[%eval 246,17] [%emt 0:00:26]} 88. Bf5 {[%eval 246,16] [%emt 0:00:27]} Qd5 {
>[%eval 248,16] [%emt 0:00:27]} 89. Bd3 {[%eval 246,17] [%emt 0:00:25]} Ke7 {
>[%eval 248,17] [%emt 0:00:17]} 90. Bc4 {(Be4) [%eval 250,17] [%emt 0:00:20]}
>Qd6 {[%eval 251,17] [%emt 0:00:26]} 91. Be6 {[%eval 251,16] [%emt 0:00:22]}
>Qb8+ {[%eval 255,19] [%emt 0:00:29]} 92. Kc4 {[%eval 255,20] [%emt 0:00:21]}
>Qh2 {[%eval 255,20] [%emt 0:00:38]} 93. e4 {[%eval 257,19] [%emt 0:00:20]} Qa2+
>{(Qe2+) [%eval 258,18] [%emt 0:00:25]} 94. Kb5 {[%eval 261,19] [%emt 0:00:23]}
>Qb1+ {[%eval 268,19] [%emt 0:00:34]} 95. Bb3 {[%eval 268,20] [%emt 0:00:33]}
>Qf1+ {[%eval 268,20] [%emt 0:00:34]} 96. Kc6 {[%eval 268,19] [%emt 0:00:21]}
>Qf4 {[%eval 268,19] [%emt 0:00:32]} 97. Bd5 {[%eval 268,18] [%emt 0:00:35]}
>Qd6+ {[%eval 275,18] [%emt 0:00:32]} 98. Kb5 {[%eval 262,14] [%emt 0:00:04]}
>Qf4 {(Qb8+) [%eval 275,14] [%emt 0:00:17]} 99. Nd3 {
>[%eval 279,15] [%emt 0:00:17]} Qf1 {[%eval 278,15] [%emt 0:00:12]} 100. Kc4 {
>[%eval 278,16] [%emt 0:00:16]} Qe2 {[%eval 282,16] [%emt 0:00:19]} 101. Bc5+ {
>[%eval 281,16] [%emt 0:00:14]} Ke8 {[%eval 282,17] [%emt 0:00:15]} 102. e5 {
>[%eval 283,17] [%emt 0:00:16]} Qa2+ {[%eval 284,17] [%emt 0:00:14]} 103. Kd4 {
>[%eval 285,18] [%emt 0:00:28]} Qa1+ {[%eval 285,18] [%emt 0:00:26]} 104. Ke3 {
>[%eval 290,18] [%emt 0:00:15]} Qg1+ {[%eval 290,18] [%emt 0:00:25]} 105. Kd2 {
>[%eval 290,17] [%emt 0:00:12]} Qg4 {[%eval 292,17] [%emt 0:00:12]} 106. Kc3 {
>[%eval 292,17] [%emt 0:00:15]} Qg7 {[%eval 292,17] [%emt 0:00:23]} 107. Bc4 {
>(Bd6) [%eval 298,15] [%emt 0:00:19]} Kd7 {[%eval 303,15] [%emt 0:00:12]} 108.
>Kb3 {(Bd4) [%eval 304,15] [%emt 0:00:18]} Kd8 {[%eval 305,15] [%emt 0:00:06]}
>109. e6 {[%eval 647,15] [%emt 0:00:23]} Qb7+ {[%eval 657,16] [%emt 0:00:22]}
>110. Nb4 {[%eval 657,17] [%emt 0:00:25]} Ke8 {
>(Qf3+) [%eval 673,16] [%emt 0:00:18]} 111. Bd3 {
>(Be2) [%eval 889,15] [%emt 0:00:17]} 1-0
The problem is, when facing the computer, to manage to get to that position.
There may be places where human analysis is vastly superior. But tactically,
computers are far better at analysis than humans. So the contest is for the
humans to "out-strategy" the computer and for the computer to "out-tactic" the
human. There are an awful lot of potential land-mines between the starting
position and a position where strategy dominates.
Now-days, the computer is going to win most of the time, at least against most
of us.
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