Author: Daniel Shawul
Date: 02:22:41 05/13/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 13, 2004 at 05:13:10, José Carlos wrote:
>On May 13, 2004 at 04:56:23, Daniel Shawul wrote:
>
>>On May 13, 2004 at 04:20:02, José Carlos wrote:
>>
>>>On May 13, 2004 at 03:35:00, Daniel Shawul wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hello
>>>>
>>>>My search is fail soft(i return the actual score)
>>>>when i fail high at the root i widen the window by 3 pawns (300).
>>>>
>>>> if(score<=r_alpha)
>>>> {
>>>> r_beta=r_alpha;
>>>> r_alpha=score-300; //r_alpha = -MATESCORE;
>>>> }
>>>> else if(score>=r_beta)
>>>> {
>>>> r_alpha=r_beta;
>>>> r_beta=score + 300; //r_beta = MATESCORE;
>>>> }
>>>>If the search fail's high at 1.75 score but the real score was 10
>>>>i get a score of 4.75 (1.75 + 3) in the next iteration. Why? my search is fail
>>>>soft and the score returned should be independent of beta. If i change the 200
>>>>to 300,score returned is 4.75??
>>
>> a correction (1.75 + 2) = 3.75
>>
>>>
>>> Are you sure you're doing fail soft? I mean, you need some extra logic, like
>>>starting off with -INFINITE in alpha nodes and increase the best score even in
>>>fail lows. You also need to make sure of returning true bounds in qsearch. Also,
>>>if you do some kind of forward prunning depeding on alpha and beta you won't be
>>>able to return true scores.
>>
>> i do futility pruning and other purnings but i always return
>> (score + margin) in all of the cases. Not alpha.
>>
>>for example in the following test position
>> rnb2rk1/ppq2p1p/4p1p1/3pP1B1/3P1Q2/2b2N2/P1P2PPP/2RK1B1R w - - 8 14
>>
>> 1& 34 -0.31 0.05 1. Qxf7+?
>> 1 36 -0.10 0.05 1. Bd3
>> 2 138 -0.44 0.09 1. Bb5
>> 2 172 -0.24 0.09 1. Bf6
>> 3 447 0.10 0.14 1. Bf6 Qa5
>> 3 679 0.16 0.16 1. Bh6!
>> 3 781 0.18 0.16 1. Bh6 Rd8
>> 4 1899 0.15 0.20 1. Bh6 Rd8 2. Qf6 Nc6
>> 5 3778 0.47 0.27 1. Bh6 Re8 2. Qf6
>> 6 10330 0.71 0.33 1. Bh6 Rd8 2. Qf6
>> 7 26798 1.06 0.44 1. Bh6!
>> 7 86808 1.48 0.63 1. Bh6 Qe7 2. Bxf8 Qxf8 3. Qf6 Nd7
>> 8 208184 1.20 0.95 1. Bh6 Qe7 2. Bxf8 Qxf8 3. Bd3 Nd7
>> 4. Ng5 Qg7
>> 9 684592 1.40 2.27 1. Bh6 Nd7 2. Ng5 a6 3. f3
>>10 3253930 1.42 9.00 1. Bh6 Qe7 2. Qe3 Qb4 3. Bxf8 Kxf8
>> 4. Qh6+ Kg8 5. Bd3 f6
>>10 5270072 1.75 15.05 1. Bf6!
>>10 11120355 3.75 33.33 1. Bf6! //here score is 1.75+2=3.75
>> //full window opened
>>10 32259429 12.82 87.59 1. Bf6 Qxe5 2. Nxe5 Nd7 3. Nxd7 Bd2
>> 4. Kxd2 Bxd7 5. c4
>>11& 32784106 12.47 89.17 1. Bf6? Qxe5
>>
>> if i change margin to 3,the result will be something like this
>>10 11120355 4.75 33.33 1. Bf6!
>>10 32259429 12.82 87.59 1. Bf6 Qxe5 2. Nxe5 Nd7 3. Nxd7 Bd2
>> 4. Kxd2 Bxd7 5. c4
>>11& 32784106 12.47 89.17 1. Bf6? Qxe5
>>
>> I am very very sure i don't return alpha/beta anywhere in my search.
>>I also tried turning off hashtable ,nullmove,iid etc but no success.
>>
>>best
>>daniel
>
> I don't find the effect you present here any strange. I can be caused by many
>things:
> - Null move: you can cutoff with a much lower score than true score cause you
>allow the opponent two moves in a row.
> - Hashing: cutting off by a stored bound from a different depth
> - Move ordering: if you search moves a, b and c with scores +1, +2, +10 you'll
>cutoff with beta <= +1 in the first move, with beta <= +2 in the second.
> - Forward pruning: if score > beta + margin and (some conditions) return(beta
>+ margin) or return(beta)-not true score-.
> - Lazy cutoffs
> Etc...
I do all of the things you said above but there is no return (alpha) or
return (beta) in my search. The search somehow converges to beta. What i store
in hashtables is score. Infact i tried turning off hashtable, null move , and
pruning techniques but it all comes back to beta.
>
> If all of that is disabled, then make sure you have something like (simplified
>search, and also in qsearch):
>
>search(alpha,beta,depth)
>{
> int best = -INFINITY; // Make sure you start with -INF, not with alpha
> int score;
>
> while(all moves)
> {
> score = -search();
> if (score >= beta)
> return(score);
> if (score >= best)
> best = score; // update this even when score <= alpha
> }
>
> return(best)
>}
That is exactly what i do in my search.
>
> José C.
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