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Subject: Re: Two Rook Endgame Test Positions [Baron-Arasan]

Author: Richard Pijl

Date: 08:59:21 05/16/04

Go up one level in this thread


On May 16, 2004 at 07:46:09, Dieter Buerssner wrote:

>This is from yesterdays ICC tourney. I think, especially without TBs, the
>positions might be rather hard.
>
>[D] 8/1R6/8/7P/2k3P1/1p4K1/8/7r w - - 8 97
>
>Here Baron played Rb8, allowing a draw. Rb6 wins (I think, everything else
>draws).

The Baron on a P4-2.4 (not the tournament machine, which was a dual AMD 2000+)
_with_ EGTB:

  5(10).   0:00.88     10921   +2.26  Rb7-b8 Kc4-c3 Kg3-g2 Rh1-h4 Kg2-f3
  6(13)&   0:01.16     18182   +2.33  Rb7-b8 Kc4-c3 Kg3-g2 Rh1-h4 Rb8-c8 Kc3-d3
                                      Kg2-g3
  6(13).   0:01.76     30098   +2.33  Rb7-b8 Kc4-c3 Kg3-g2 Rh1-h4 Rb8-c8 Kc3-d3
                                      Kg2-g3
  7(13)>   0:02.31     48091   +1.99  Kg3-g2
  7(13)&   0:02.86     67366   +2.26  Kg3-g2 Rh1-h4 Kg2-f3 Kc4-c3 Rb7-c7 Kc3-d3
                                      Rc7-d7 Kd3-c3 Rd7-b7
  7(14).   0:03.57     85477   +2.26  Kg3-g2 Rh1-h4 Kg2-f3 Kc4-c3 Rb7-c7 Kc3-d3
                                      Rc7-d7 Kd3-c3 Rd7-b7
  8(14)&   0:04.34    106896   +1.99  Kg3-g2 Rh1-h4 Kg2-f3 Kc4-c3 Rb7-c7 Kc3-d3
                                      Rc7-d7 Kd3-c3 Rd7-b7 Rh4-h2
  8(16).   0:06.48    212957   +1.99  Kg3-g2 Rh1-h4 Kg2-f3 Kc4-c3 Rb7-c7 Kc3-d3
                                      Rc7-d7 Kd3-c3 Rd7-b7 Rh4-h2
  9(18)&   0:10.77    497624   +1.96  Kg3-g2 Rh1-h4 Kg2-f3 Kc4-c3 Rb7-c7 Kc3-d3
                                      Rc7-d7 Kd3-c3 Kf3-g3 Rh4-h1 Kg3-f4
  9(18).   0:15.00    764303   +1.96  Kg3-g2 Rh1-h4 Kg2-f3 Kc4-c3 Rb7-c7 Kc3-d3
                                      Rc7-d7 Kd3-c3 Kf3-g3 Rh4-h1 Kg3-f4
 10(20)-   0:24.72   1576684   +1.61  Kg3-g2 (Rh1-h4) (Kg2-f3) (Rh4-h3) (Kf3-f4)
(Kc4-c3)
                                      (Rb7-c7) (Kc3-d3) (Rc7-d7) (Kd3-c2)
(Rd7-e7) (Rh3-h1)
                                      (Re7-e2) (Kc2-c3) (Re2-e7)
 10(20)>   0:28.23   2035103   +0.72  Rb7-b8
 10(22)>   0:36.25   2740826   +0.72  Rb7-b6
 10(22)-   0:39.88   3064448   +0.71  Rb7-b6 (Kc4-c3) (Kg3-g2) (Rh1-h4) (Rb6-c6)
(Kc3-d2)
                                      (Kg2-f1) (Rh4xg4) (Rc6-b6) (Rg4-g5)
(h5-h6) (Kd2-c3)
                                      (h6-h7) (Rg5-h5) (Kf1-f2)
 10(22)&   0:42.24   3273254   +1.26  Rb7-b6 Kc4-c3 Kg3-g2 Rh1-h4 Rb6-c6 Kc3-d2
                                      Kg2-g3 Rh4-h1 Rc6-d6 Kd2-c3 Rd6-b6 b3-b2
                                      (Kg3-f2)
 10(22).   0:42.24   3273271   +1.26  Rb7-b6 Kc4-c3 Kg3-g2 Rh1-h4 Rb6-c6 Kc3-d2
                                      Kg2-g3 Rh4-h1 Rc6-d6 Kd2-c3 Rd6-b6 b3-b2
                                      (Kg3-f2)

without EGTB it is quite a bit harder. The Baron does select Rb6 after 31
seconds, but with not with a convincing score. That takes about 7 minutes:

 13(27)&   0:40.97  17021429   +0.35  Rb7-b6 Kc4-c3 h5-h6 b3-b2 g4-g5 Kc3-c2
                                      Kg3-g4 b2-b1Q Rb6xb1 Kc2xb1 Kg4-f5 Kb1-c2
                                      Kf5-g6 Kc2-d1 Kg6-g7 (Rh1-h5) (h6-h7)
 13(27)+   0:59.97  25054099   +0.71  Kg3-f4 (Kc4-c3) (Kf4-g5) (b3-b2) (h5-h6)
(b2-b1N)
 13(27)&   1:04.20  27098992   +0.40  Kg3-f4 Kc4-c3 Kf4-g5 b3-b2 Rb7xb2 (Kc3xb2)

                                      (h5-h6) (Kb2-c1) (Kg5-g6) (Kc1-d2) (h6-h7)
(Kd2-e3)
                                      (g4-g5) (Ke3-f4) (Kg6-g7)
 13(29).   1:20.46  34217337   +0.40  Kg3-f4 Kc4-c3 Kf4-g5 b3-b2 Rb7xb2 (Kc3xb2)

                                      (h5-h6) (Kb2-c1) (Kg5-g6) (Kc1-d2) (h6-h7)
(Kd2-e3)
                                      (g4-g5) (Ke3-f4) (Kg6-g7)
 14(27)+   1:37.71  41590126   +0.75  Kg3-f4 (Kc4-c3) (Kf4-g5) (b3-b2)
(Rb7xb2)(Kc3xb2)
                                      (h5-h6) (Kb2-c1) (Kg5-g6) (Kc1-d2) (g4-g5)
(Kd2-e3)
                                      (Kg6-g7) (Rh1-c1) (g5-g6) (Rc1-c7)
 14(31)&   2:02.86  52118938   +0.90  Kg3-f4 Kc4-c3 Kf4-g5 b3-b2 Rb7xb2 Kc3xb2
                                      h5-h6 Kb2-c1 Kg5-g6 Rh1-d1 g4-g5 Rd1-d6
                                      Kg6-h5 Rd6-d8 g5-g6 Rd8-h8
 14(32).   2:34.94  64751050   +0.90  Kg3-f4 Kc4-c3 Kf4-g5 b3-b2 Rb7xb2 Kc3xb2
                                      h5-h6 Kb2-c1 Kg5-g6 Rh1-d1 g4-g5 Rd1-d6
                                      Kg6-h5 Rd6-d8 g5-g6 Rd8-h8
 15(32)&   3:27.67  87130762   +0.77  Kg3-f4 Kc4-c3 Kf4-g5 b3-b2 h5-h6 b2-b1Q
                                      Rb7xb1 Rh1xb1 h6-h7 Rb1-b8 Kg5-f5 Kc3-d2
                                      g4-g5 Kd2-e2 Kf5-f6 Rb8-h8 g5-g6 Ke2-d3
                                      (Kf6-g5) (Rh8-a8) (Kg5-f5) (Kd3-d2)
(Kf5-e4) (Kd2-c3)
                                      (Ke4-f4) (Kc3-d3)
 15(34)+   7:57.52 195434202   +1.25  Rb7-b6 (Kc4-c3) (h5-h6) (Kc3-c2)
(Kg3-f4)(b3-b2)
                                      (g4-g5) (b2-b1Q) (Rb6xb1) (Kc2xb1)
(Kf4-f5) (Rh1-c1)
                                      (g5-g6) (Rc1-c5) (Kf5-f4) (Rc5-c4)
 15(36)&  10:20.16 253591499   +1.94  Rb7-b6 Kc4-c3 h5-h6 Kc3-c2 Kg3-f4 b3-b2
                                      g4-g5 b2-b1Q Rb6xb1 Kc2xb1 Kf4-f5 Kb1-b2
                                      Kf5-g6 Kb2-c3 h6-h7 Kc3-d4 Kg6-g7 (Rh1-h5)

                                      (h7-h8Q) (Kd4-e4)
 15(36).  10:22.30 254414433   +1.94  Rb7-b6 Kc4-c3 h5-h6 Kc3-c2 Kg3-f4 b3-b2
                                      g4-g5 b2-b1Q Rb6xb1 Kc2xb1 Kf4-f5 Kb1-b2
                                      Kf5-g6 Kb2-c3 h6-h7 Kc3-d4 Kg6-g7 (Rh1-h5)

                                      (h7-h8Q) (Kd4-e4)

>
>After Rb8:
>
[D]1R6/8/8/7P/2k3P1/1p4K1/8/7r b - - 9 97

with egtb no problem:

  6(13).   0:00.33     38120   -1.79  Kc4-c3 Kg3-g2 Rh1-c1 Rb8-c8 Kc3-b2 Rc8-g8
                                      Kb2-c3
  7(14)+   0:00.44     54405   -1.43  Kc4-c3 (Kg3-g2) (Rh1-c1) (Rb8-c8) (Kc3-d2)
(Rc8-d8)
                                      (Kd2-c3) (Kg2-g3) (b3-b2) (g4-g5)
  7(14)+   0:00.50     77838   -0.53  Kc4-c3 (Kg3-g2) (Rh1-d1) (g4-g5) (b3-b2)
(g5-g6)
                                      (b2-b1Q) (Rb8-c8) (Kc3-b3) (g6-g7)
(Rd1-d2)
  7(14)&   0:00.55     96578   -0.10  Kc4-c3 Kg3-g2 Rh1-d1 h5-h6 Rd1-d2 Kg2-f3
                                      Rd2-d3 Kf3-e4 Rd3-h3
  7(16).   0:00.77    114695   -0.10  Kc4-c3 Kg3-g2 Rh1-d1 h5-h6 Rd1-d2 Kg2-f3
                                      Rd2-d3 Kf3-e4 Rd3-h3
  8(15)-   0:01.38    197772   -0.45  Kc4-c3 (Kg3-g2) (Rh1-d1) (h5-h6) (Rd1-d2)
(Kg2-f3)
                                      (b3-b2) (g4-g5) (Kc3-c2) (h6-h7) (Rd2-g2)
  8(15)&   0:01.60    240590   -0.41  Kc4-c3 Kg3-g2 Rh1-h4 Rb8-c8 Kc3-d3 Rc8-d8
                                      Kd3-c2 Kg2-g3 b3-b2 Rd8-b8 Rh4-h1 (Rb8-c8)

                                      (Kc2-d3) (Rc8-b8) (Kd3-c3) (Rb8-c8)
(Kc3-d4)
  8(15).   0:01.60    240605   -0.41  Kc4-c3 Kg3-g2 Rh1-h4 Rb8-c8 Kc3-d3 Rc8-d8
                                      Kd3-c2 Kg2-g3 b3-b2 Rd8-b8 Rh4-h1 (Rb8-c8)

                                      (Kc2-d3) (Rc8-b8) (Kd3-c3) (Rb8-c8)
(Kc3-d4)
  9(17)-   0:02.75    413192   -0.76  Kc4-c3 (Kg3-g2) (Rh1-h4) (Rb8-c8) (Kc3-d3)
(Rc8-d8)
                                      (Kd3-c2) (Kg2-g3) (b3-b2) (Rd8-c8)
(Kc2-d1) (Rc8-b8)
                                      (Kd1-c1)
  9(18)+   0:03.52    549114   -0.06  Kc4-c3 (Kg3-g2) (Rh1-h4) (Rb8-c8) (Kc3-b4)
(Kg2-g1)
                                      (Rh4xg4) (Kg1-f2)
  9(18).   0:03.63    555830   -0.76  Kc4-c3 (Kg3-g2) (Rh1-h4) (Rb8-c8) (Kc3-b4)
(Kg2-g3)
                                      (Rh4-h1)
 10(20)+   0:04.67    748678   -0.41  Kc4-c3 (Kg3-g2) (Rh1-h4) (Rb8-c8) (Kc3-b4)
(Kg2-g3)
                                      (Rh4-h1) (Rc8-d8) (b3-b2) (Kg3-g2)
(b2-b1Q) (g4-g5)
 10(21)&   0:08.41   1139752   +0.00  Kc4-c3 Kg3-g2 Rh1-h4 Rb8-c8 Kc3-b4 Kg2-g3
                                      Rh4-h1 Rc8-d8 b3-b2 Rd8-b8 Kb4-c3 Kg3-g2
                                      b2-b1Q (Rb8xb1) (Rh1xb1)
 10(21).   0:08.57   1163547   +0.00  Kc4-c3 Kg3-g2 Rh1-h4 Rb8-c8 Kc3-b4 Kg2-g3
                                      Rh4-h1 Rc8-d8 b3-b2 Rd8-b8 Kb4-c3 Kg3-g2
                                      b2-b1Q (Rb8xb1) (Rh1xb1)

without egtb only a little longer:

  5(13).   0:00.05     15115   -2.35  Rh1-g1 Kg3-f4 Rg1-h1 Kf4-e5 Kc4-c3 Rb8-c8
                                      Kc3-d3
  6(12)+   0:00.11     25471   -2.00  Rh1-g1 (Kg3-f4) (Kc4-c3) (Rb8-b4)
  6(13)+   0:00.16     32902   -1.10  Rh1-g1 (Kg3-f4) (Kc4-c3) (Rb8-c8) (Kc3-b4)
(Rc8-d8)
                                      (b3-b2) (Kf4-e5)
  6(14)&   0:00.16     44685   +0.00  Rh1-g1 Kg3-f4 Kc4-c3 Rb8-c8 Kc3-b4 g4-g5
                                      b3-b2 Rc8-b8 Kb4-c3 Rb8-c8 Kc3-b4 <rep>
  6(14).   0:00.16     47318   +0.00  Rh1-g1 Kg3-f4 Kc4-c3 Rb8-c8 Kc3-b4 g4-g5
                                      b3-b2 Rc8-b8 Kb4-c3 Rb8-c8 Kc3-b4 <rep>
  7(15)&   0:00.33     83901   +0.00  Rh1-g1 Kg3-f4 Kc4-c3 Rb8-c8 Kc3-b4 Rc8-b8
                                      Kb4-a3 Kf4-g5 b3-b2 Rb8-a8 Ka3-b4 Ra8-b8
                                      Kb4-a3 <rep>
  7(15).   0:00.33     95244   +0.00  Rh1-g1 Kg3-f4 Kc4-c3 Rb8-c8 Kc3-b4 Rc8-b8
                                      Kb4-a3 Kf4-g5 b3-b2 Rb8-a8 Ka3-b4 Ra8-b8
                                      Kb4-a3 <rep>
  8(17)&   0:00.66    191249   -0.09  Rh1-g1 Kg3-f4 Kc4-c3 g4-g5 b3-b2 h5-h6
                                      Rg1-f1 Kf4-e5 Rf1-e1 Ke5-f6 b2-b1Q Rb8xb1
                                      Re1xb1
  8(17).   0:00.93    243006   -0.09  Rh1-g1 Kg3-f4 Kc4-c3 g4-g5 b3-b2 h5-h6
                                      Rg1-f1 Kf4-e5 Rf1-e1 Ke5-f6 b2-b1Q Rb8xb1
                                      Re1xb1
  9(19)&   0:01.70    450835   -0.17  Rh1-g1 Kg3-f4 Kc4-c3 g4-g5 b3-b2 h5-h6
                                      Rg1-f1 Kf4-e5 Rf1-e1 Ke5-f6 Re1-f1 Kf6-g6
                                      b2-b1Q Rb8xb1 Rf1xb1
  9(19).   0:02.36    714009   -0.17  Rh1-g1 Kg3-f4 Kc4-c3 g4-g5 b3-b2 h5-h6
                                      Rg1-f1 Kf4-e5 Rf1-e1 Ke5-f6 Re1-f1 Kf6-g6
                                      b2-b1Q Rb8xb1 Rf1xb1
 10(25)&   0:04.23   1437763   -0.26  Rh1-g1 Kg3-f4 Kc4-c3 g4-g5 b3-b2 h5-h6
                                      Rg1-f1 Kf4-e5 Rf1-h1 Ke5-f6 Kc3-c2 Kf6-g6
                                      b2-b1Q Rb8xb1 (Rh1xb1)
 10(25)&   0:06.10   2214582   +0.00  Kc4-c3 Rb8-c8 Kc3-d3 Rc8-b8 Kd3-c3 <rep>
 10(25).   0:06.10   2230022   +0.00  Kc4-c3 Rb8-c8 Kc3-d3 Rc8-b8 Kd3-c3 <rep>
 11(26)&   0:07.52   2841918   +0.00  Kc4-c3 Rb8-c8 Kc3-d3 Rc8-b8 Kd3-c3 <rep>
 11(26).   0:08.18   3135983   +0.00  Kc4-c3 Rb8-c8 Kc3-d3 Rc8-b8 Kd3-c3 <rep>
 12(25)&   0:12.52   4971594   +0.00  Kc4-c3 Rb8-c8 Kc3-d3 Rc8-b8 Kd3-c3 <rep>

Richard.
>
>Now Arasan played Rg1+, which is losing. Kc3 draws (everything else loses).
>After Rg1+ the game continued 98.Kf4 Kc3 99.g5 b2 100.Rxb2!? Kxb2 and the two
>pawns win against the rook.
>
>Does any engine without TBs find Rb6 in the first pos with convincing score? And
>in the second pos, does any engine without TBs see, that Kc3 is really much
>better than alternative moves? The testpositions are not really good, because
>the moves can be found without "understanding" the pos.
>
>Regards,
>Dieter



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