Author: Anthony Cozzie
Date: 12:26:58 05/17/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 17, 2004 at 00:12:58, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On May 14, 2004 at 20:43:01, Anthony Cozzie wrote: > >>On May 14, 2004 at 20:31:25, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >> >>>On May 14, 2004 at 18:26:54, Amir Ban wrote: >>> >>>>On May 14, 2004 at 12:32:26, Matthew Hull wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 14, 2004 at 12:16:57, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On May 13, 2004 at 20:17:42, Russell Reagan wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Not anyone can play. Only people who have several thousand dollars and two >>>>>weeks >>to burn can play. I don't know many people in that situation, or at >>>>>least if >>they are in that situation and participated, the locks would be >>>>>changed when >>they returned home from the trip :) >>>>>> >>>>>>FYI, travel costs and hardware are sponsored by the organisation. >>>>> >>>>>No, they are not. $2000 dollars is not sponsored by the organization, neither >>>>>the hotel, nor the paid time off for two weeks. The entire situation is >>>>>calculated to discourage American participation. The physical format is >>>>>calculated to permit cheating, as was done with the illeagal throwing of a >>>>>drawn game to the eventual "winner". It is a corrupt establishment designed to >>>>>cater to European interests, and to snub Americans. >>>>>It is therefore an irrelevant contest, just like the FIDE World Championship is >>>>>completely irrelevant. >>>>>:) >>>>> >>>>>CCT is now the venue for true WORLD comptetition, instead of just European >>>>>competition. >>>>> >>>> >>>>No it's not. I will come to CCT to experiment, if I come at all. Others don't >>>>bother to show up, and why should they ? It's not a major event. >>>> >>>>CCT is a bit like Biel: crowded and noisy, with a few good players. But don't >>>>mistake Biel for Wijk an Zee. >>>> >>>>Which reminds me that no major chess tournament takes place in the USA nowadays. >>>>All the major tournaments are in Europe, but I don't hear you saying that >>>>Kaidanov and Stripunsky are the world's best. >>>> >>>>Amir >>> >>>Quite a few top chess events have been held in the U.S. - '95 Kasparov-Anand, >>>'89 or so Kasparov-Karpov, '99 FIDE knockouts, three man-machine championships. >>> >>>But no WCCCs. >>> >>>Ok it's probably just a coincidence - but IMO the complaints are understandable. >>> >>>Vas >> >>The complaints are understandable. Heck, *I* have a problem with it :) But the >>people claiming CCT has superceded the WCCC are simply living in a dream world . >>. . >> >>anthony > > >CCT is going (note is going, not already has) to accomplish two things: > >1. encourage participation from around the world, not just from around Europe. > >2. Eventually make the WCCC irrelevant. We already have 3x the participants. >We've had most commercial programs in the events. > >The problem is the internet vs international travel. A 2-3 day game conference >would be nice, maybe with the last 2-3 rounds of the event played in the >evenings. But two weeks is simply beyond ridiculous with the idea of >encouraging _new_ participants. If my first tournament had involved >international travel for two weeks, I certainly would not have had a first >tournament. A commercial chess programmer might be able to make that as it is a >primary mission for his company. Locals might make it. But the cost is a real >issue. > >That is where the ICCA is completely missing the boat. They are supposed to be >encouraging development of computer chess programs. Just read the charter. >They are failing in at least one regard, for that essential mission (that is >_the_ reason we originally formed the ICCA, regardless of what they might >suggest. _I_ was actually there when we agreed to form it.) Somehow that got >lost in the shuffle. It started in the dirty days of the commercial section of >the WMCCC and has led the ICCA farther astray from its primary _mission_. > >But that's OK. CCT will likely continue to do better and better. And actually >have an international collection of participants, both experienced and new >participants as well... > >At a price that beginners, newcomers and students can afford. That is a big key >issue... > >There was great discussion when we started adding a 5th round to ACM events. >Because it makes it harder and harder to take off to participate. Now we are at >two weeks. By 2020 it will be a full-time year-round job it would seem... > >You should _first_ decide who you are trying to attract, then define the event >that will do this. Not first worry about how many rounds and how to occupy two >weeks, and then see who will come... If the WCCC had started at 2 weeks, it >would not have survived the first event. Where this "idea" came from is beyond >me. At least through 1989 they were 5 rounds period. And getting to them was >not a problem due to time off, and by bouncing between NA and Europe every 6 >years there was a WCCC "on continent" if you could not travel internationally >due to cost. > >But those were the days when the programmers were actually the people making the >decisions and running the organization. It's drifted far away from that... I completely agree with the length issue. There are simply too many rounds in the current format. At WCCC03 I thought the top programs all won their last 5 games in a row anyway. If the system is automated, it is easily possible to play 2 games per day (all you have to do is watch). Perhaps a time control of 90 minutes for the first 40 moves plus 90 minutes for the rest of the game. So a 1/2/1/2/1 format would give 7 rounds (about the right length, I think) in 5 days. That would also give some time for sightseeing or other stuff. I certainly agree that CCT has done much more to foster amateur engines than WCCC. But printing "2006 World Computer Champion" on the box just sounds so much better than "CCT-8 Champion". anthony
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