Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 17:28:09 05/17/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 17, 2004 at 18:21:27, Amir Ban wrote: >On May 17, 2004 at 00:32:18, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On May 15, 2004 at 03:15:20, Amir Ban wrote: >> >>> >>>Make up your mind: Is crafty the menace that keeps everyone important from CCT >>>or is CCT the all-inclusive tournament ? >>> >>>I don't understand why I should be scared of meeting crafty at CCT, but not >>>scared of meeting it at WCCC. Crafty's been there in previous WCCC most of the >>>time. >> >>I remember 1996/1997. And maybe one other event. That's 3 out of 10 maybe... >> > >Say what ? I'm pretty sure I played against you in Maastricht 2001. I don't >remember if I played you in London 2000, but you were there, operated by Graham >Laight. The ones I remember are (a) Tom operating Crafty in Jakarta. Jason doing it in Paris. Michel was a third operator... and Graham may have done a fourth that I had forgotten about. That is for sure all of the events. And they were all WMCCC events, never a WCCC... > > >>I don't believe the "scared" stuff. I'm not "scared" to play anybody. Heck, I >>played Deep Thought, Belle, chess 4.x... That was part of the process. I doubt >>any commercial programmer would be "scared". "worried" might well apply as >>there are serious hardware platforms that can serve like the old Colt .45 >>revolver of the wild-wild west. Often called "the great equalizer". :) >> >>I don't attend for simple reasons. >> >>1. Too expensive to travel to Europe every year. If it were in NA every other >>year as the charter once demanded, I could at least make those as I always did >>in the past, and occasionally make the ones in Europe. >> >>2. Too long. For the first 25 years these events were 5 rounds and 4 days >>long. Now they stretch to two weeks. My only choice would be to make that a >>family vacation, and it would have to be scheduled during two breaks that might >>possibly be long enough for me to attend. But I don't see the ICCA (or anyone) >>trying to work around one participant's schedule, it doesn't make much sense. >>It would be easier to just shorten the event. Worst case could be 5 days, 2 >>rounds per day, although that still turns into a week with travel days required >>for international travel. >> >>3. Getting a local operator is a non-optimal solution. I can't do any book >>updates. Seems like the ICCA is not very big on having local network access to >>make that doable. The _right_ person to operate Crafty is me. I know the >>program. I know what kind of book lines it will do ok in and what to avoid. >>Due to _lots_ of experience. I can't give that experience to an operator >>although the three I have used did pretty well. >> > >So use a remote connection and do the book updates just like you do for CCT. Or >discover the wonder of email attachments. Right. How exactly would I have done that at the WMCCC in Jakarta? At the one in Paris. _NO_ internet access. _NO_ email access. Jakarta was a black hole. For Paris Thorsten used his cell phone to get us updates... > > >>For now, my option is the CCT events. I can attend them. They don't cost a >>fortune, and they are getting bigger and bigger. A couple of years will see >>more commercial interest as the word will slowly "get around" and customers will >>be asking "how did your product do in the cct-8 event?" for example. Once CCT >>becomes better-known, avoiding it will become a marketing mistake. That time >>will come. >> >> >> >>> >>> >>>>:) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>It's not a major event. >>>> >>>> >>>>Nonesense. 50 programs is a huge event. Much bigger than some expensive, >>>>exclusive, back-yard barbecue at the ICGA. >>>> >>> >>>There are thousands of players at Biel, only a dozen at Wijk an Zee. So what ? >>>When was the last time Kasparov, Polgar, Anand played in Biel ? >>> >> >>CCT is hardly like Biel. WCCC is hardly like Wijk an Zee, either. Although it >>is giving it a run size-wise. :) >> >>You are _totally_ overlooking the _point_ of having WCCC events. They were >>originally done to _promote_ computer chess interest and development around the >>world. IE like the olympics. Not like professional football which is all about >>winning and money... >> >>which does better as far as _promoting_ chess? Biel or Wijk? >> > >I think Harry Potter did a much better job than either. But fine, you promote >computer chess. The rest of us will concentrate on winning. As they say at the >Olympics: The essential is not winning but participation. I believe that is what is fueling the ICCA's current stance. Forget the new people. Cater to the commercial companies... > > >> >> >> >> >>> >>>>No. If they thought they could win, they would show up. Remember? ;) >>>> >>>>Americans don't show up in Europe because it's expensive. Commercial European >>>>projects don't show up at the FREE, no-expense CCT because they are chicken. >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>CCT is a bit like Biel: crowded and noisy, with a few good players. But don't >>>>>mistake Biel for Wijk an Zee. >>>> >>>>Programs don't care how much noise there is. Just come and play. You can't >>>>stand it if bodo competes with you? I thought the Championship was open to all? >>>> Oh, only those who are well-off to afford $2000 travel. >>>> >>> >>>America is not a third-world country, and the problem with your argument is that >>>it works even better for real third-world countries, i.e. that Tanzanian program >>>would be the world's best, if only its author could afford to write it. >> >>I can only speak for myself, based on experience. You are confusing commercial >>computer chess development with amateur development. You might consider it a >>marketing plus to attend and hopefully do well, and consider it an investment in >>advertising. Not to me. It is just a cost I'll never recoup. And beginners >>see a cost they can neither recoup nor afford... >> > >Speaking only for myself, the competition is much more important for me than >commercial interest, which, unfortunately, doesn't go very far in this field. > >Amir For me the competition was very important from my first ACM event to the last. But it was _always_ tempered by cost. In years when the ACM and WCCC event were both held, I could attend _one_ due to cost. Usually the ACM as it was always in the US.
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