Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: List of participants for WCCC

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 17:28:09 05/17/04

Go up one level in this thread


On May 17, 2004 at 18:21:27, Amir Ban wrote:

>On May 17, 2004 at 00:32:18, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On May 15, 2004 at 03:15:20, Amir Ban wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Make up your mind: Is crafty the menace that keeps everyone important from CCT
>>>or is CCT the all-inclusive tournament ?
>>>
>>>I don't understand why I should be scared of meeting crafty at CCT, but not
>>>scared of meeting it at WCCC. Crafty's been there in previous WCCC most of the
>>>time.
>>
>>I remember 1996/1997.  And maybe one other event.  That's 3 out of 10 maybe...
>>
>
>Say what ? I'm pretty sure I played against you in Maastricht 2001. I don't
>remember if I played you in London 2000, but you were there, operated by Graham
>Laight.

The ones I remember are (a) Tom operating Crafty in Jakarta.  Jason doing it in
Paris.  Michel was a third operator...  and Graham may have done a fourth that I
had forgotten about.  That is for sure all of the events.  And they were all
WMCCC events, never a WCCC...


>
>
>>I don't believe the "scared" stuff.  I'm not "scared" to play anybody.  Heck, I
>>played Deep Thought, Belle, chess 4.x...  That was part of the process.  I doubt
>>any commercial programmer would be "scared".  "worried" might well apply as
>>there are serious hardware platforms that can serve like the old Colt .45
>>revolver of the wild-wild west.  Often called "the great equalizer".  :)
>>
>>I don't attend for simple reasons.
>>
>>1.  Too expensive to travel to Europe every year.  If it were in NA every other
>>year as the charter once demanded, I could at least make those as I always did
>>in the past, and occasionally make the ones in Europe.
>>
>>2.  Too long.  For the first 25 years these events were 5 rounds and 4 days
>>long.  Now they stretch to two weeks.  My only choice would be to make that a
>>family vacation, and it would have to be scheduled during two breaks that might
>>possibly be long enough for me to attend.  But I don't see the ICCA (or anyone)
>>trying to work around one participant's schedule, it doesn't make much sense.
>>It would be easier to just shorten the event.  Worst case could be 5 days, 2
>>rounds per day, although that still turns into a week with travel days required
>>for international travel.
>>
>>3.  Getting a local operator is a non-optimal solution.  I can't do any book
>>updates.  Seems like the ICCA is not very big on having local network access to
>>make that doable.  The _right_ person to operate Crafty is me.  I know the
>>program.  I know what kind of book lines it will do ok in and what to avoid.
>>Due to _lots_ of experience.  I can't give that experience to an operator
>>although the three I have used did pretty well.
>>
>
>So use a remote connection and do the book updates just like you do for CCT. Or
>discover the wonder of email attachments.

Right.  How exactly would I have done that at the WMCCC in Jakarta?  At the one
in Paris.  _NO_ internet access.  _NO_ email access.  Jakarta was a black hole.
For Paris Thorsten used his cell phone to get us updates...



>
>
>>For now, my option is the CCT events.  I can attend them.  They don't cost a
>>fortune, and they are getting bigger and bigger.  A couple of years will see
>>more commercial interest as the word will slowly "get around" and customers will
>>be asking "how did your product do in the cct-8 event?" for example.  Once CCT
>>becomes better-known, avoiding it will become a marketing mistake.  That time
>>will come.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>:)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It's not a major event.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Nonesense.  50 programs is a huge event.  Much bigger than some expensive,
>>>>exclusive, back-yard barbecue at the ICGA.
>>>>
>>>
>>>There are thousands of players at Biel, only a dozen at Wijk an Zee. So what ?
>>>When was the last time Kasparov, Polgar, Anand played in Biel ?
>>>
>>
>>CCT is hardly like Biel.  WCCC is hardly like Wijk an Zee, either.  Although it
>>is giving it a run size-wise. :)
>>
>>You are _totally_ overlooking the _point_ of having WCCC events.  They were
>>originally done to _promote_ computer chess interest and development around the
>>world.  IE like the olympics.  Not like professional football which is all about
>>winning and money...
>>
>>which does better as far as _promoting_ chess?  Biel or Wijk?
>>
>
>I think Harry Potter did a much better job than either. But fine, you promote
>computer chess. The rest of us will concentrate on winning. As they say at the
>Olympics: The essential is not winning but participation.

I believe that is what is fueling the ICCA's current stance.  Forget the new
people.  Cater to the commercial companies...




>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>No.  If they thought they could win, they would show up.  Remember?  ;)
>>>>
>>>>Americans don't show up in Europe because it's expensive.  Commercial European
>>>>projects don't show up at the FREE, no-expense CCT because they are chicken.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>CCT is a bit like Biel: crowded and noisy, with a few good players. But don't
>>>>>mistake Biel for Wijk an Zee.
>>>>
>>>>Programs don't care how much noise there is.  Just come and play.  You can't
>>>>stand it if bodo competes with you?  I thought the Championship was open to all?
>>>> Oh, only those who are well-off to afford $2000 travel.
>>>>
>>>
>>>America is not a third-world country, and the problem with your argument is that
>>>it works even better for real third-world countries, i.e. that Tanzanian program
>>>would be the world's best, if only its author could afford to write it.
>>
>>I can only speak for myself, based on experience.  You are confusing commercial
>>computer chess development with amateur development.  You might consider it a
>>marketing plus to attend and hopefully do well, and consider it an investment in
>>advertising.  Not to me.  It is just a cost I'll never recoup.  And beginners
>>see a cost they can neither recoup nor afford...
>>
>
>Speaking only for myself, the competition is much more important for me than
>commercial interest, which, unfortunately, doesn't go very far in this field.
>
>Amir

For me the competition was very important from my first ACM event to the last.
But it was _always_ tempered by cost.  In years when the ACM and WCCC event were
both held, I could attend _one_ due to cost.  Usually the ACM as it was always
in the US.






This page took 0.03 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.