Author: Komputer Korner
Date: 00:14:51 12/18/98
Go up one level in this thread
On December 18, 1998 at 02:09:22, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>On December 17, 1998 at 22:15:51, Micheal Cummings wrote:
>
>>
>>On December 17, 1998 at 20:53:00, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>
>>>On December 17, 1998 at 00:19:50, Micheal Cummings wrote:
>>>>On December 17, 1998 at 00:02:53, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 16, 1998 at 17:11:20, Komputer Korner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>This is good news about the CM7 opening book editor, but if they don't also add
>>>>>>the capability of analyzing in player player mode with the engine showing on
>>>>>>screen analysis and score eval while taking back and moving forward moves, then
>>>>>>ChessMaster will still remain a toy program. This is the single most important
>>>>>>feature in chess programs which all the high end programs have.
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>Komputer Korner
>>>>>
>>>>>I would have expected better from KK. To play off peoples prejudice about
>>>>>Chessmaster by calling it a toy is a very misleading and low blow. People
>>>>>already have a hang up about Chessmaster because of its low price. To suggest
>>>>>that Chessmaster is nothing more then a toy, does everyone a disservice.
>>>>>Chessmaster lacks in some areas, and excels in others, like all programs. I
>>>>>would suggest that Chessmasters deserve respect just for it is playing strength
>>>>>alone. Moreover, would never tell anyone this program is just a toy.
>>>>>
>>>>>Mark Young
>>>>
>>>>I fully agree with you, it is a degrading post, and is nothing short of saying
>>>>that the program is a piece of Rubbish, because when you use toy in that figure
>>>>of speech that is what you are putting across.
>>>>And if you say you are not, then you are wrong, because I read it and see it
>>>>like that. and I asked my girlfriend who has a degree is mass comunication to
>>>>read it, and told her to tell me what it is saying to her, and she said he is
>>>>portraying that it is rubbish nothing that is worth considering. Wrong choice of
>>>>words KK for trying to put your view across. Wrong figure of speech.
>>>>
>>>>And this post maybe should be removed because I think it is the same as saying
>>>>for example "'Chessbase is a toy and made by a toy company. Which is the same as
>>>>saying Chessbase is pathetic and so is the company."
>>>When we start removing on-topic opinions about a chess product -- even on-topic
>>>and *harsh* opinions -- then this group has lost all usefulness. I think
>>>everyone is reading _way_ too much into this "toy" thing. This is not a
>>>personal slam against anyone. It is KK's _opinion_ about a particular
>>>*product*. It's not libelous or slanderous. It's just a strong feeling about a
>>>certain lack of features. I happen to agree. Probably even more happen to
>>>disagree. What's next, a list of adjectives that are acceptable? "Joe used a
>>>word not on the list! Pull it! Ban him!" [FCOL]. Any and all reviewers look
>>>at a product and tell us what they like and what they dislike. A sensible
>>>person will look over the list and match up that data with their wants and
>>>desires to see if they want to persue further. KK's review of the product was
>>>hardly scathing. Now that he has used it a while, he finds certain lacking
>>>features annoying {I'm reading between the lines a bit here -- obviously}.
>>>Anyway, it's an opinion. About a product. Why not just take it or leave it or
>>>say how *you* feel.
>>>IMO-YMMV.
>>
>>Its a matter of chosing the right words. his use of words were wrong. Just
>>because the words used were not rude or harsh, does not mean that they are not
>>offensive and wrong. Reading his post we all know what his words meant. And if
>>he did not mean to convey his meaning in this manner, then he should have chosen
>>his words more carefully.
>>
>>No one is picking on how he reviews, but if you see a movie reviewer in the
>>newpaper, saying "Oh this movie has to be the most common movie I have ever
>>seen, Roger acted like he was a happy man drowning in a bathtub, and to say Jane
>>was anything more than a common dog is to give her more credit than it is worth.
>>
>>Now there is nothing worng with the rudeness of those words, alone they are
>>harmless, but the innocent words that we use everyday when put into this context
>>easily portrays that movie is in other words is a piece of shit with shit
>>actors.
>>
>>Using the word toy in his post portrays he is saying that CM6K is nothing more
>>than a piece of shit. Not even worth to be considered.
>>
>>Maybe if he feels like that then he should remove his reviews from the resource
>>centre and alter it to what he really thinks.
>>
>>And yes to me the CCC, we all should make it into a respectable place and to
>>rise above this trashing of programs, if there is something wrong with a
>>program, then there are far easier ways to put it across than how he did it. I
>>mean in his review he told us what was wrong with it and what it was lacking
>>without being offensive, now he has turn into a person who wrote it in an
>>offensive way.
>
>I once had a copy of Chessmaster 4000 Turbo. Its opening book editor was not a
>toy, nor a joke. Frankly, it was a piece of shit.
>
>One had to interact with a pathetically small chess board. Why they couldn't
>have used the normal boards with the opening book editor, I don't know. But on
>my monitor, the board was about as wide as my thumbnail. It did not function if
>your video driver was displaying only 16 colours. What is so special about an
>opening book editor that it should require 256 colours? The main program ran
>fine in 16 colour mode. That doesn't sound like many colours today, but
>resolutions like 800x600x16 and 1024x768x16 were pretty common back then,
>because the video cards only held 256Kb to 1 Mb. There were other problems too,
>but I used it too long ago for me to enumerate them completely now.
>
>Calling a spade a spade offends some people's sensibilities from time to time,
>but that is often unlikely to deter those who feel it is important to
>characterize their opinion accurately. My personal opinion is that getting
>riled by such a statement isn't going to effect change in how those people
>communicate, but I suppose you are welcome to try.
>
>And as for the CM6000 book editor, hopefully it has been improved from the
>CM4000 days!
>
>Dave Gomboc
Not much improvement in it Dave. However the lack of player player mode with
engine analysis is much more serious and relegates CM6000 to a TOY status. Some
people take the word toy as being very negative but I don't. There are many fun
toys and CM6000 does have a lot of other nice features. However for serious
players this feature is a must and until CM implements it then it's toy status
will remain. I used the word toy to get everybody's attention to this serious
lack of the most important feature in a chess program. Also the number of
mistakes in the tutorials is inexcusable and the 2nd patch that was supposed to
have corrected them is still not out.
--
Komputer Korner
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.