Author: Micheal Cummings
Date: 00:20:13 12/18/98
Go up one level in this thread
On December 18, 1998 at 03:14:51, Komputer Korner wrote:
>On December 18, 1998 at 02:09:22, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>
>>On December 17, 1998 at 22:15:51, Micheal Cummings wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>On December 17, 1998 at 20:53:00, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 17, 1998 at 00:19:50, Micheal Cummings wrote:
>>>>>On December 17, 1998 at 00:02:53, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On December 16, 1998 at 17:11:20, Komputer Korner wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This is good news about the CM7 opening book editor, but if they don't also add
>>>>>>>the capability of analyzing in player player mode with the engine showing on
>>>>>>>screen analysis and score eval while taking back and moving forward moves, then
>>>>>>>ChessMaster will still remain a toy program. This is the single most important
>>>>>>>feature in chess programs which all the high end programs have.
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>Komputer Korner
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I would have expected better from KK. To play off peoples prejudice about
>>>>>>Chessmaster by calling it a toy is a very misleading and low blow. People
>>>>>>already have a hang up about Chessmaster because of its low price. To suggest
>>>>>>that Chessmaster is nothing more then a toy, does everyone a disservice.
>>>>>>Chessmaster lacks in some areas, and excels in others, like all programs. I
>>>>>>would suggest that Chessmasters deserve respect just for it is playing strength
>>>>>>alone. Moreover, would never tell anyone this program is just a toy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Mark Young
>>>>>
>>>>>I fully agree with you, it is a degrading post, and is nothing short of saying
>>>>>that the program is a piece of Rubbish, because when you use toy in that figure
>>>>>of speech that is what you are putting across.
>>>>>And if you say you are not, then you are wrong, because I read it and see it
>>>>>like that. and I asked my girlfriend who has a degree is mass comunication to
>>>>>read it, and told her to tell me what it is saying to her, and she said he is
>>>>>portraying that it is rubbish nothing that is worth considering. Wrong choice of
>>>>>words KK for trying to put your view across. Wrong figure of speech.
>>>>>
>>>>>And this post maybe should be removed because I think it is the same as saying
>>>>>for example "'Chessbase is a toy and made by a toy company. Which is the same as
>>>>>saying Chessbase is pathetic and so is the company."
>>>>When we start removing on-topic opinions about a chess product -- even on-topic
>>>>and *harsh* opinions -- then this group has lost all usefulness. I think
>>>>everyone is reading _way_ too much into this "toy" thing. This is not a
>>>>personal slam against anyone. It is KK's _opinion_ about a particular
>>>>*product*. It's not libelous or slanderous. It's just a strong feeling about a
>>>>certain lack of features. I happen to agree. Probably even more happen to
>>>>disagree. What's next, a list of adjectives that are acceptable? "Joe used a
>>>>word not on the list! Pull it! Ban him!" [FCOL]. Any and all reviewers look
>>>>at a product and tell us what they like and what they dislike. A sensible
>>>>person will look over the list and match up that data with their wants and
>>>>desires to see if they want to persue further. KK's review of the product was
>>>>hardly scathing. Now that he has used it a while, he finds certain lacking
>>>>features annoying {I'm reading between the lines a bit here -- obviously}.
>>>>Anyway, it's an opinion. About a product. Why not just take it or leave it or
>>>>say how *you* feel.
>>>>IMO-YMMV.
>>>
>>>Its a matter of chosing the right words. his use of words were wrong. Just
>>>because the words used were not rude or harsh, does not mean that they are not
>>>offensive and wrong. Reading his post we all know what his words meant. And if
>>>he did not mean to convey his meaning in this manner, then he should have chosen
>>>his words more carefully.
>>>
>>>No one is picking on how he reviews, but if you see a movie reviewer in the
>>>newpaper, saying "Oh this movie has to be the most common movie I have ever
>>>seen, Roger acted like he was a happy man drowning in a bathtub, and to say Jane
>>>was anything more than a common dog is to give her more credit than it is worth.
>>>
>>>Now there is nothing worng with the rudeness of those words, alone they are
>>>harmless, but the innocent words that we use everyday when put into this context
>>>easily portrays that movie is in other words is a piece of shit with shit
>>>actors.
>>>
>>>Using the word toy in his post portrays he is saying that CM6K is nothing more
>>>than a piece of shit. Not even worth to be considered.
>>>
>>>Maybe if he feels like that then he should remove his reviews from the resource
>>>centre and alter it to what he really thinks.
>>>
>>>And yes to me the CCC, we all should make it into a respectable place and to
>>>rise above this trashing of programs, if there is something wrong with a
>>>program, then there are far easier ways to put it across than how he did it. I
>>>mean in his review he told us what was wrong with it and what it was lacking
>>>without being offensive, now he has turn into a person who wrote it in an
>>>offensive way.
>>
>>I once had a copy of Chessmaster 4000 Turbo. Its opening book editor was not a
>>toy, nor a joke. Frankly, it was a piece of shit.
>>
>>One had to interact with a pathetically small chess board. Why they couldn't
>>have used the normal boards with the opening book editor, I don't know. But on
>>my monitor, the board was about as wide as my thumbnail. It did not function if
>>your video driver was displaying only 16 colours. What is so special about an
>>opening book editor that it should require 256 colours? The main program ran
>>fine in 16 colour mode. That doesn't sound like many colours today, but
>>resolutions like 800x600x16 and 1024x768x16 were pretty common back then,
>>because the video cards only held 256Kb to 1 Mb. There were other problems too,
>>but I used it too long ago for me to enumerate them completely now.
>>
>>Calling a spade a spade offends some people's sensibilities from time to time,
>>but that is often unlikely to deter those who feel it is important to
>>characterize their opinion accurately. My personal opinion is that getting
>>riled by such a statement isn't going to effect change in how those people
>>communicate, but I suppose you are welcome to try.
>>
>>And as for the CM6000 book editor, hopefully it has been improved from the
>>CM4000 days!
>>
>>Dave Gomboc
>
>Not much improvement in it Dave. However the lack of player player mode with
>engine analysis is much more serious and relegates CM6000 to a TOY status. Some
>people take the word toy as being very negative but I don't. There are many fun
>toys and CM6000 does have a lot of other nice features. However for serious
>players this feature is a must and until CM implements it then it's toy status
>will remain. I used the word toy to get everybody's attention to this serious
>lack of the most important feature in a chess program. Also the number of
>mistakes in the tutorials is inexcusable and the 2nd patch that was supposed to
>have corrected them is still not out.
>--
>Komputer Korner
It is just sad that you do not seem to realise that what you say is offensive, I
see you a nominated on the moderator list. hmmmm, not on my list anymore.
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