Author: Uri Blass
Date: 04:02:18 05/19/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 19, 2004 at 05:24:43, José Carlos wrote: >On May 19, 2004 at 05:02:25, Omid David Tabibi wrote: > >>On May 19, 2004 at 04:53:11, José Carlos wrote: >> >>>On May 19, 2004 at 04:38:11, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>> >>>>On May 19, 2004 at 04:29:48, José Carlos wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 03:54:50, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 03:32:10, José Carlos wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 13:21:15, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 13:07:26, José Carlos wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 12:58:33, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 12:55:25, José Carlos wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 09:16:34, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>On May 17, 2004 at 05:48:45, Richard Pijl wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>There are thousands of players at Biel, only a dozen at Wijk an Zee. So what ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>When was the last time Kasparov, Polgar, Anand played in Biel ? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>There are also thousands of (well, at least more than a thousand) players at >>>>>>>>>>>>>Wijk aan Zee. >>>>>>>>>>>>>Besides the three grandmaster groups there are several other tournaments. >>>>>>>>>>>>>See http://www.coruschess.com/ for more info on those (click information-general >>>>>>>>>>>>>information). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>In Linares there are usually about half a dozen players only. And it is usually >>>>>>>>>>>>considered the most important tournament. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> No it isn't. The most important tournament has always been the world champs >>>>>>>>>>>where players from all over the world and all levels can participate, in zonals, >>>>>>>>>>>interzonals etc. If you are strong enough you can get to play the world champion >>>>>>>>>>>if you pass the previous contests. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>And you must attend in person for the world championship; you don't play over >>>>>>>>>>the internet... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, I'm not a program, just a person. But maybe someday someone will invent a >>>>>>>>>way to connect directly my brain to a chess server so that I can run automated >>>>>>>>>with a fixed protocol. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>That technology is already available, it is called PlayChess, Internet Chess >>>>>>>>Club, FICS, etc. But it is not used in serious events, and surely not in world >>>>>>>>championships. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You miss the point. >>>>>>> We can't "automate" a human connected to a chess server the way we can with a >>>>>>>program. At ICC, I make the moves on my screen with my mouse. Nothing prevents >>>>>>>me from having another computer analyzing the game, a bunch of friends analyzing >>>>>>>with me in a physical board, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>>And anything prevents you from doing the same in CCT? Analyze the game on >>>>>>another computer, using other programs, have a bunch of friends analyzing with >>>>>>you, and when you find a better move, overrule your program... >>>>> >>>>> Not easily if you're automated and thinking is posted and log files can be >>>>>analyzed. It's not impossible, but it's hard. >>>> >>>>Unfortunately, it is extremely easy. Think of the following: Every 1 second your >>>>program checks the file command.txt, and if it finds a move there it chooses it >>>>and creates a PV for it (very easy, in the root force that move). Thus, you >>>>overruled the program, and the PV is as realistic as before. Implementing it >>>>will take less than one hour to make it totally undetectable. >>>> >>>>I hope nobody implements this suggestion, but it just shows how simple and easy >>>>it is to cheat online. >>> >>> I won't bet (as Vincent), because I'm poor, but I'm pretty sure a log file >>>created that way would be extremely easy to catch. >> >>Why? The PV will look just like any other PV. And anyway, after the game >>is over you can change the log file as much as you want and only then show >>it to others. After all, nobody sees what you are doing there. > > > Changing a log file so that it looks normal is not easy. You can very easily >make a mistake in a pv or in eval or in time... Specially when you must have it >changed during the game, because the TD can ask it anytime he wants. > Possible, but not easy. > > >>> BTW, what prevents a program that runs manually to do the same? Run Hiarcs in >>>background; have it print PV's; have your program waiting very relaxed until >>>PV's come; let your program print the read pv or let it pick the first move and >>>make up a pv. Ain't that equally easy? >> >>Manually cheating is possible, but much harder than online cheating. The fact >>that your opponent can view your computer screen at all times makes cheating >>harder, but of course not impossible. > > > You can prepare the cheat before the game, when the opponent is not watching. > > >>You can cheat in chess tournaments also. This can give you some ideas: >>http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=693 >>But again, that is not as easy as cheating online. > > Some things are easier and some others are harder. In automated games you >can't resign for the program. This is a real case of a world champs, not a >conjecture like those about online cheating. It is wrong. You can resign for the program in automated games on ICC. There are no clear rules that say that you cannot do it in positions that you believe to be hopeless. In world championship you are not allowed to resign for the program(otherwise Jonny's operator could resign even before the repetition). Uri
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.