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Subject: Re: List of participants for WCCC

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 10:46:54 05/19/04

Go up one level in this thread


On May 19, 2004 at 13:23:26, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On May 19, 2004 at 12:49:57, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>
>>On May 19, 2004 at 12:32:44, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On May 19, 2004 at 12:19:05, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 11:56:37, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 03:38:52, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 13:56:25, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 13:46:02, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I hope that makes it clear why _I_ have not said much about playing this year.
>>>>>>>>>Who knows _what_ rule(s) the ICCA will use this time around.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I know. And I have told you many times.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That is _really_ convincing.  You guys don't even want to produce a list of who
>>>>>>>is playing???
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Check the WCCC page today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Last time I looked _you_ didn't speak for the ICCA any more than the organizers
>>>>>>>of the WCCC I tried to enter a couple of years back spoke for it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't know when or where you looked, or what happened in Paris or Jakarta that
>>>>>>you frequently mention. What I know is about WCCC 2004, and I am telling you in
>>>>>>the clearest possible way what will be the case here.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I'll run through this once more.  Slowly.
>>>>>
>>>>>In Jakarta, there was _no_ outside communication.  No game results.  No nothing.
>>>>> Dead silence.
>>>>>
>>>>>In Paris, same deal.  No internet access.  No nothing.  I believe this was the
>>>>>event where Thorsten was getting results out at his own expense via cell.
>>>>>
>>>>>Two of the first two WMCCC's I ever participated in.  While at every ACM and
>>>>>WCCC event past 1980 we had outside world access.
>>>>>
>>>>>Then For one of the more recent events, and no, now I don't even remember which
>>>>>because I no longer care, I made arrangements to get a pretty good box (8-way
>>>>>from Dell) and when they finally worked out the details for me, I tried to enter
>>>>>and was told "We have a new rule that says that a programmer _must_ attend."
>>>>>Bruce Moreland went to this event and can confirm all of this as he and I talked
>>>>>about it multiple times.  I then "undid" my machine arrangements, a bit
>>>>>embarassing after having asked and having had some folks at Dell go out of the
>>>>>way to help.  Later Bruce tells me that a commercial entry could not get the
>>>>>programmer there and the ICCA decided to drop the rule.
>>>>>
>>>>>Doesn't that do wonders for my wanting to participate _again_??  Doesn't that
>>>>>make me take what you say on behalf of the ICCA at something less than true face
>>>>>value, since the rules get changed on a whim???
>>>>>
>>>>>That is my problem.  Later they _again_ modified this rule so that it became
>>>>>possible to have a non-programmer operator, but at double the normal entry fee.
>>>>>What is _that_ about?  This is an organization that wants to promote computer
>>>>>chess or throttle it?  Is it all about the money going in to the ICCA?   Or is
>>>>>it about the computer chess competition and interest in same?
>>>>>
>>>>>Looks _bad_ from my perspective.  And when the last CCT had what appears to be
>>>>>over 5x the entries of the current WCCC event, and there is no cost, and there
>>>>>are no changing entry rules, and so forth, what is the incentive to go to a WCCC
>>>>>rather than the next CCT event?
>>>>>
>>>>>Hopefully you get my drift.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't believe _any_ of this has put the ICCA in a particularly favorable
>>>>>light.  I guess those of us that originally formed this organization can just
>>>>>carry on feeling embarassed about how the tournaments have been handled the past
>>>>>few years.  The journal is a good thing.  But the tournament (which was
>>>>>originally the 'flagship' of the ICCA) has gone steadily downhill.
>>>>>
>>>>>How would _you_ react to such utter nonsense???
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It seems that indeed some points where unclear in some of the previous WCCCs.
>>>>But again, I am only responsible for the current WCCC. And I am doing my best to
>>>>clarify the things as much as possible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>At the CCT we manage to have an _open_ discussion about the rules _before_ the
>>>>>>>event, and then we go by those rules.  The ICCA might try that at some point in
>>>>>>>time, perhaps???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'd love to play remotely.  Once it becomes obvious that doing so is "OK".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>We don't provide operators here. But if you send someone to operate Crafty on
>>>>>>your behalf, that is OK.
>>>>>
>>>>>I have a volunteer that would do well.  I'll investigate hardware one more time.
>>>>> But I can guarantee you that if the rules change this time, it will be my
>>>>>absolute last time to try this...
>>>>
>>>>If you send an operator here, there will be no problem.
>>>
>>>I hope that you can promise that if the rules change this time Falcon is not
>>>going to participate.
>>>I also hope that Amir can also promise that Junior is not going to participate
>>>in that case.
>>
>>I verfied this issue once more just to be sure. A programmer can send an
>>operator on his behalf (even though we'd love to see him in person). The only
>>change is that if the programmer doesn't attend in person, the entry fee is
>>doubled (from €25 to €50 for amateur).
>
>What exactly is the justification for that?  IE do you want to keep the event at
>10 participants?
>
>As I said in another thread, I will do my best to make arrangements if (a) the
>rules will not change later to make this impossible;  and (b) there is no
>nonsensical penalties for doing so.
>
>What is the incentive for me to pay twice as much?

If I understand correctly
Dan Honeycutt offered up to 300$ to support Crafty's participation in case that
you agree to play.
see http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?365220

300$ is clearly more than the registration fee for Crafty.

Uri



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