Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 15:39:49 05/19/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 19, 2004 at 18:18:36, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >On May 19, 2004 at 18:08:44, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On May 19, 2004 at 17:18:11, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >> >>>On May 19, 2004 at 17:07:34, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On May 19, 2004 at 16:02:53, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 15:55:04, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 14:31:41, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 13:29:38, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 06:14:12, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 06:07:45, Bryan Hofmann wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 05:33:50, Richard Pijl wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 05:05:54, Jouni Uski wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Number 1 favourite is missing, why? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Jouni >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Hydra is officially from the UAE. As I understood the sponsors do not allow >>>>>>>>>>>Hydra to participate in an event in Israel. >>>>>>>>>>>Richard. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Someone please tell me that this is a rumor or missunderstanding. They banned a >>>>>>>>>>chess engine from participation due to the country of its creator? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Exactly the opposite. We (organizers) told the Hydra team that they are welcomed >>>>>>>>>to play in Israel under the UAE flag. But apparently their sponsors decided that >>>>>>>>>they don't want to play in Israel. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Last time an engine was banned from participation due to the country of its >>>>>>>>>creator was in Jakarta WMCCC 1996. The Junior team was not allowed to play there >>>>>>>>>because Junior is an Israeli program. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I was under the impression that was not exactly the truth, the whold truth and >>>>>>>>nothing but the truth. In fact, Junior was expected there. I received a phone >>>>>>>>call in the wee hours of the morning from Bruce Moreland, asking me to help him >>>>>>>>contact Amir since they had not shown up. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I believe this was a case of "they didn't feel welcome and chose not to attend >>>>>>>>for that reason." IE I can't really fault someone for not wanting to fly a UAE >>>>>>>>flag in the middle of Israel either. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>So, IMHO it was more a matter of they didn't participate for many good reasons, >>>>>>>>but I don't think they were _prevented_ from participating... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Based on what I have read and heard, it was made clear to them that they cannot >>>>>>>play under the Israeli flag in Jakarta. In other words, they were prevented from >>>>>>>participation. Of course Amir or Shay can correct me if I'm wrong. >>>>>> >>>>>>Probably was (a) a sane decision to not fly an Israeli flag there and (b) a >>>>>>reasonable decision for them not to attend if they could not. As I said, a bit >>>>>>of both... >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I quoted Shay Bushinsky in the following post: >>>>>http://talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?366082 >>>>> >>>>>Based on that, it was not a decision on behalf of the Junior team not to attend, >>>>>they were simply *banned* from participation. >>>>> >>>> >>>>reread what you posted. They were not "banned". >>>> >>>>Unless you redefine banned to mean something other than "not allowed". As I >>>>said, they could have participated, not representing Israel. >>> >>>"not representing Israel", in other words *banned* from playing as Israeli >>>representatives. What's hard to understand about that? >> >>Are you really that dense, or just acting so to prolong a discussion? >> >>"banned" means "not allowed to participate, _period_. It does not mean "not >>allowed to participate under flag XXX or anything else". It means "not allowed >>to participate." > >Junior is an Israeli program, and both its authors are Israeli. Saying that it >is not allowed to play as an Israeli program is equal to saying it is not >allowed to play at all. Not really. IE if I play, I don't _really_ represent the USA in any official capacity. I just happen to live here. I could play without a US flag over my monitor if I wanted to... But, as I said, if it were a choice, I probably would _not_ play. But I would not say "I was banned"... > > > > >> >>What is so hard to understand about using _proper_ definitions and terms? >> >>Yes they were _hindered_ from participating. Or they were even discouraged from >>participating. But they were not _banned_ from participating... >> >> >>> >>>The Hydra team was explicitly told that they are welcome to play under the UAE >>>flag. >>> >>>P.S. Of course I'm not criticizing the Hydra team, as they wanted to join. The >>>guys who prevented that were their UAE sponsors. >> >>Both decisions to not play are reasonable... > >There is a huge difference between not being allowed to play, and choosing not >to play. > >A few days ago FIFA asked Libya to withdraw its bid to host the 2010 Football >World Cup because it refused to allow Israel to play there. > >From New York Times: >"... while Libya, another long-shot candidate, was deemed unqualified yesterday. >The Agence France-Presse news agency reported that Libya withdrew after saying >it would not allow Israel to participate if the Israelis qualified for the 2010 >tournament." "not allowed to participate" --> banned. But that wasn't the case with Junior as I have pointed out repeatedly. There _is_ a difference. > >See also: > >Libya: Israel not welcome >http://www.news24.com/News24/Sport/SA_2010_bid/0,,2-9-1606_1527597,00.html > >How Israel cost Libya the 2010 World Cup >http://www.iol.co.za/topfive.php?URL_to=/index.php?click_id=19&art_id=qw1084624380330B226&set_id=1 > > >I'm sure Libya wouldn't have any problem if the Israeli team decided to >represent Burkina Faso, Micronesia, or another country instead... > > > > >> >> >>> >>> >>>>I don't like that >>>>option and as I also said, I considered their not showing up as "a reasonable >>>>decision". >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I don't want >>>>>>>>>>to lead the discussion into a political debate here but if the above statement >>>>>>>>>>is true, this bigotry should not be condoned and further posting of this event >>>>>>>>>>should not be allowed here.
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