Author: Omid David Tabibi
Date: 08:13:16 05/20/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 19, 2004 at 18:39:49, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On May 19, 2004 at 18:18:36, Omid David Tabibi wrote: > >>On May 19, 2004 at 18:08:44, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On May 19, 2004 at 17:18:11, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>> >>>>On May 19, 2004 at 17:07:34, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 16:02:53, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 15:55:04, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 14:31:41, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 13:29:38, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 06:14:12, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 06:07:45, Bryan Hofmann wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 05:33:50, Richard Pijl wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 05:05:54, Jouni Uski wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Number 1 favourite is missing, why? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Jouni >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Hydra is officially from the UAE. As I understood the sponsors do not allow >>>>>>>>>>>>Hydra to participate in an event in Israel. >>>>>>>>>>>>Richard. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Someone please tell me that this is a rumor or missunderstanding. They banned a >>>>>>>>>>>chess engine from participation due to the country of its creator? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Exactly the opposite. We (organizers) told the Hydra team that they are welcomed >>>>>>>>>>to play in Israel under the UAE flag. But apparently their sponsors decided that >>>>>>>>>>they don't want to play in Israel. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Last time an engine was banned from participation due to the country of its >>>>>>>>>>creator was in Jakarta WMCCC 1996. The Junior team was not allowed to play there >>>>>>>>>>because Junior is an Israeli program. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I was under the impression that was not exactly the truth, the whold truth and >>>>>>>>>nothing but the truth. In fact, Junior was expected there. I received a phone >>>>>>>>>call in the wee hours of the morning from Bruce Moreland, asking me to help him >>>>>>>>>contact Amir since they had not shown up. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I believe this was a case of "they didn't feel welcome and chose not to attend >>>>>>>>>for that reason." IE I can't really fault someone for not wanting to fly a UAE >>>>>>>>>flag in the middle of Israel either. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>So, IMHO it was more a matter of they didn't participate for many good reasons, >>>>>>>>>but I don't think they were _prevented_ from participating... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Based on what I have read and heard, it was made clear to them that they cannot >>>>>>>>play under the Israeli flag in Jakarta. In other words, they were prevented from >>>>>>>>participation. Of course Amir or Shay can correct me if I'm wrong. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Probably was (a) a sane decision to not fly an Israeli flag there and (b) a >>>>>>>reasonable decision for them not to attend if they could not. As I said, a bit >>>>>>>of both... >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>I quoted Shay Bushinsky in the following post: >>>>>>http://talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?366082 >>>>>> >>>>>>Based on that, it was not a decision on behalf of the Junior team not to attend, >>>>>>they were simply *banned* from participation. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>reread what you posted. They were not "banned". >>>>> >>>>>Unless you redefine banned to mean something other than "not allowed". As I >>>>>said, they could have participated, not representing Israel. >>>> >>>>"not representing Israel", in other words *banned* from playing as Israeli >>>>representatives. What's hard to understand about that? >>> >>>Are you really that dense, or just acting so to prolong a discussion? >>> >>>"banned" means "not allowed to participate, _period_. It does not mean "not >>>allowed to participate under flag XXX or anything else". It means "not allowed >>>to participate." >> >>Junior is an Israeli program, and both its authors are Israeli. Saying that it >>is not allowed to play as an Israeli program is equal to saying it is not >>allowed to play at all. > >Not really. IE if I play, I don't _really_ represent the USA in any official >capacity. I just happen to live here. I could play without a US flag over my >monitor if I wanted to... What if you were denied entry because of your US passport? The Junior team was denied entry visa. Or if you would like *banned* from entering Indonesia. Now you will of course explain that they still *chose* not to participate, because they could have entered the country illegaly from the sea... > >But, as I said, if it were a choice, I probably would _not_ play. But I would >not say "I was banned"... > > >> >> >> >> >>> >>>What is so hard to understand about using _proper_ definitions and terms? >>> >>>Yes they were _hindered_ from participating. Or they were even discouraged from >>>participating. But they were not _banned_ from participating... >>> >>> >>>> >>>>The Hydra team was explicitly told that they are welcome to play under the UAE >>>>flag. >>>> >>>>P.S. Of course I'm not criticizing the Hydra team, as they wanted to join. The >>>>guys who prevented that were their UAE sponsors. >>> >>>Both decisions to not play are reasonable... >> >>There is a huge difference between not being allowed to play, and choosing not >>to play. >> >>A few days ago FIFA asked Libya to withdraw its bid to host the 2010 Football >>World Cup because it refused to allow Israel to play there. >> >>From New York Times: >>"... while Libya, another long-shot candidate, was deemed unqualified yesterday. >>The Agence France-Presse news agency reported that Libya withdrew after saying >>it would not allow Israel to participate if the Israelis qualified for the 2010 >>tournament." > > >"not allowed to participate" --> banned. > >But that wasn't the case with Junior as I have pointed out repeatedly. > >There _is_ a difference. > > > > > >> >>See also: >> >>Libya: Israel not welcome >>http://www.news24.com/News24/Sport/SA_2010_bid/0,,2-9-1606_1527597,00.html >> >>How Israel cost Libya the 2010 World Cup >>http://www.iol.co.za/topfive.php?URL_to=/index.php?click_id=19&art_id=qw1084624380330B226&set_id=1 >> >> >>I'm sure Libya wouldn't have any problem if the Israeli team decided to >>represent Burkina Faso, Micronesia, or another country instead... >> >> >> >> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>I don't like that >>>>>option and as I also said, I considered their not showing up as "a reasonable >>>>>decision". >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>I don't want >>>>>>>>>>>to lead the discussion into a political debate here but if the above statement >>>>>>>>>>>is true, this bigotry should not be condoned and further posting of this event >>>>>>>>>>>should not be allowed here.
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.