Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 12:28:24 05/20/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 19, 2004 at 14:52:32, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >On May 19, 2004 at 13:18:32, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On May 19, 2004 at 12:49:57, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >> >>>On May 19, 2004 at 12:32:44, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On May 19, 2004 at 12:19:05, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 11:56:37, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 03:38:52, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 13:56:25, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 13:46:02, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I hope that makes it clear why _I_ have not said much about playing this year. >>>>>>>>>>Who knows _what_ rule(s) the ICCA will use this time around. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I know. And I have told you many times. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>That is _really_ convincing. You guys don't even want to produce a list of who >>>>>>>>is playing??? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Check the WCCC page today. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Last time I looked _you_ didn't speak for the ICCA any more than the organizers >>>>>>>>of the WCCC I tried to enter a couple of years back spoke for it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I don't know when or where you looked, or what happened in Paris or Jakarta that >>>>>>>you frequently mention. What I know is about WCCC 2004, and I am telling you in >>>>>>>the clearest possible way what will be the case here. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>I'll run through this once more. Slowly. >>>>>> >>>>>>In Jakarta, there was _no_ outside communication. No game results. No nothing. >>>>>> Dead silence. >>>>>> >>>>>>In Paris, same deal. No internet access. No nothing. I believe this was the >>>>>>event where Thorsten was getting results out at his own expense via cell. >>>>>> >>>>>>Two of the first two WMCCC's I ever participated in. While at every ACM and >>>>>>WCCC event past 1980 we had outside world access. >>>>>> >>>>>>Then For one of the more recent events, and no, now I don't even remember which >>>>>>because I no longer care, I made arrangements to get a pretty good box (8-way >>>>>>from Dell) and when they finally worked out the details for me, I tried to enter >>>>>>and was told "We have a new rule that says that a programmer _must_ attend." >>>>>>Bruce Moreland went to this event and can confirm all of this as he and I talked >>>>>>about it multiple times. I then "undid" my machine arrangements, a bit >>>>>>embarassing after having asked and having had some folks at Dell go out of the >>>>>>way to help. Later Bruce tells me that a commercial entry could not get the >>>>>>programmer there and the ICCA decided to drop the rule. >>>>>> >>>>>>Doesn't that do wonders for my wanting to participate _again_?? Doesn't that >>>>>>make me take what you say on behalf of the ICCA at something less than true face >>>>>>value, since the rules get changed on a whim??? >>>>>> >>>>>>That is my problem. Later they _again_ modified this rule so that it became >>>>>>possible to have a non-programmer operator, but at double the normal entry fee. >>>>>>What is _that_ about? This is an organization that wants to promote computer >>>>>>chess or throttle it? Is it all about the money going in to the ICCA? Or is >>>>>>it about the computer chess competition and interest in same? >>>>>> >>>>>>Looks _bad_ from my perspective. And when the last CCT had what appears to be >>>>>>over 5x the entries of the current WCCC event, and there is no cost, and there >>>>>>are no changing entry rules, and so forth, what is the incentive to go to a WCCC >>>>>>rather than the next CCT event? >>>>>> >>>>>>Hopefully you get my drift. >>>>>> >>>>>>I don't believe _any_ of this has put the ICCA in a particularly favorable >>>>>>light. I guess those of us that originally formed this organization can just >>>>>>carry on feeling embarassed about how the tournaments have been handled the past >>>>>>few years. The journal is a good thing. But the tournament (which was >>>>>>originally the 'flagship' of the ICCA) has gone steadily downhill. >>>>>> >>>>>>How would _you_ react to such utter nonsense??? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>It seems that indeed some points where unclear in some of the previous WCCCs. >>>>>But again, I am only responsible for the current WCCC. And I am doing my best to >>>>>clarify the things as much as possible. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>At the CCT we manage to have an _open_ discussion about the rules _before_ the >>>>>>>>event, and then we go by those rules. The ICCA might try that at some point in >>>>>>>>time, perhaps??? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I'd love to play remotely. Once it becomes obvious that doing so is "OK". >>>>>>> >>>>>>>We don't provide operators here. But if you send someone to operate Crafty on >>>>>>>your behalf, that is OK. >>>>>> >>>>>>I have a volunteer that would do well. I'll investigate hardware one more time. >>>>>> But I can guarantee you that if the rules change this time, it will be my >>>>>>absolute last time to try this... >>>>> >>>>>If you send an operator here, there will be no problem. >>>> >>>>I hope that you can promise that if the rules change this time Falcon is not >>>>going to participate. >>>>I also hope that Amir can also promise that Junior is not going to participate >>>>in that case. >>> >>>I verfied this issue once more just to be sure. A programmer can send an >>>operator on his behalf (even though we'd love to see him in person). The only >>>change is that if the programmer doesn't attend in person, the entry fee is >>>doubled (from €25 to €50 for amateur). >> >>I understand I do not remember that you mentioned doubling the entry fee but >>considering the fact that it was mentioned today in this post and >>the fact that I do not think that another €25 is a reason for Bob hyatt not to >>participate I will not conider it as a change in the rules. >> >>It can be good if you update the information in >> >>http://www.cs.unimaas.nl/wccc2004/ >> >>I do not see there information that programmers who cannot attend in person need >>to double their entry fee and send an operator. > >I will ask Mark to update the information there. How long before _exact_ round start/end times can be announced? That "morning/afternoon/evening" stuff is not going to get me very far in trying to find hardware... > > >> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>In case that you are sure that the rules are not going to change there is no >>>>problem to promise it and it can be productive to convince other programmers to >>>>participate by sending operators. >>> >>>We want to convince the programmers to participate themselves :) But in case >>>that is not possible, then someone else can operate the program on their behalf. >> >>I understand but it is possible that hyatt is not the only person who has >>problems to participate not by operator. > >We already have Deep Sjeng registered to play by an operator. > > >> >>Uri
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