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Subject: Re: List of participants for WCCC

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 12:28:24 05/20/04

Go up one level in this thread


On May 19, 2004 at 14:52:32, Omid David Tabibi wrote:

>On May 19, 2004 at 13:18:32, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On May 19, 2004 at 12:49:57, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>
>>>On May 19, 2004 at 12:32:44, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 12:19:05, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 11:56:37, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 03:38:52, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 13:56:25, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On May 18, 2004 at 13:46:02, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I hope that makes it clear why _I_ have not said much about playing this year.
>>>>>>>>>>Who knows _what_ rule(s) the ICCA will use this time around.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I know. And I have told you many times.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>That is _really_ convincing.  You guys don't even want to produce a list of who
>>>>>>>>is playing???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Check the WCCC page today.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Last time I looked _you_ didn't speak for the ICCA any more than the organizers
>>>>>>>>of the WCCC I tried to enter a couple of years back spoke for it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I don't know when or where you looked, or what happened in Paris or Jakarta that
>>>>>>>you frequently mention. What I know is about WCCC 2004, and I am telling you in
>>>>>>>the clearest possible way what will be the case here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'll run through this once more.  Slowly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In Jakarta, there was _no_ outside communication.  No game results.  No nothing.
>>>>>> Dead silence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In Paris, same deal.  No internet access.  No nothing.  I believe this was the
>>>>>>event where Thorsten was getting results out at his own expense via cell.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Two of the first two WMCCC's I ever participated in.  While at every ACM and
>>>>>>WCCC event past 1980 we had outside world access.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Then For one of the more recent events, and no, now I don't even remember which
>>>>>>because I no longer care, I made arrangements to get a pretty good box (8-way
>>>>>>from Dell) and when they finally worked out the details for me, I tried to enter
>>>>>>and was told "We have a new rule that says that a programmer _must_ attend."
>>>>>>Bruce Moreland went to this event and can confirm all of this as he and I talked
>>>>>>about it multiple times.  I then "undid" my machine arrangements, a bit
>>>>>>embarassing after having asked and having had some folks at Dell go out of the
>>>>>>way to help.  Later Bruce tells me that a commercial entry could not get the
>>>>>>programmer there and the ICCA decided to drop the rule.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Doesn't that do wonders for my wanting to participate _again_??  Doesn't that
>>>>>>make me take what you say on behalf of the ICCA at something less than true face
>>>>>>value, since the rules get changed on a whim???
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That is my problem.  Later they _again_ modified this rule so that it became
>>>>>>possible to have a non-programmer operator, but at double the normal entry fee.
>>>>>>What is _that_ about?  This is an organization that wants to promote computer
>>>>>>chess or throttle it?  Is it all about the money going in to the ICCA?   Or is
>>>>>>it about the computer chess competition and interest in same?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Looks _bad_ from my perspective.  And when the last CCT had what appears to be
>>>>>>over 5x the entries of the current WCCC event, and there is no cost, and there
>>>>>>are no changing entry rules, and so forth, what is the incentive to go to a WCCC
>>>>>>rather than the next CCT event?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hopefully you get my drift.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't believe _any_ of this has put the ICCA in a particularly favorable
>>>>>>light.  I guess those of us that originally formed this organization can just
>>>>>>carry on feeling embarassed about how the tournaments have been handled the past
>>>>>>few years.  The journal is a good thing.  But the tournament (which was
>>>>>>originally the 'flagship' of the ICCA) has gone steadily downhill.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>How would _you_ react to such utter nonsense???
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>It seems that indeed some points where unclear in some of the previous WCCCs.
>>>>>But again, I am only responsible for the current WCCC. And I am doing my best to
>>>>>clarify the things as much as possible.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>At the CCT we manage to have an _open_ discussion about the rules _before_ the
>>>>>>>>event, and then we go by those rules.  The ICCA might try that at some point in
>>>>>>>>time, perhaps???
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I'd love to play remotely.  Once it becomes obvious that doing so is "OK".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>We don't provide operators here. But if you send someone to operate Crafty on
>>>>>>>your behalf, that is OK.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have a volunteer that would do well.  I'll investigate hardware one more time.
>>>>>> But I can guarantee you that if the rules change this time, it will be my
>>>>>>absolute last time to try this...
>>>>>
>>>>>If you send an operator here, there will be no problem.
>>>>
>>>>I hope that you can promise that if the rules change this time Falcon is not
>>>>going to participate.
>>>>I also hope that Amir can also promise that Junior is not going to participate
>>>>in that case.
>>>
>>>I verfied this issue once more just to be sure. A programmer can send an
>>>operator on his behalf (even though we'd love to see him in person). The only
>>>change is that if the programmer doesn't attend in person, the entry fee is
>>>doubled (from €25 to €50 for amateur).
>>
>>I understand I do not remember that you mentioned doubling the entry fee but
>>considering the fact that it was mentioned today in this post and
>>the fact that I do not think that another €25 is a reason for Bob hyatt not to
>>participate I will not conider it as a change in the rules.
>>
>>It can be good if you update the information in
>>
>>http://www.cs.unimaas.nl/wccc2004/
>>
>>I do not see there information that programmers who cannot attend in person need
>>to double their entry fee and send an operator.
>
>I will ask Mark to update the information there.

How long before _exact_ round start/end times can be announced?  That
"morning/afternoon/evening" stuff is not going to get me very far in trying to
find hardware...



>
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>In case that you are sure that the rules are not going to change there is no
>>>>problem to promise it and it can be productive to convince other programmers to
>>>>participate by sending operators.
>>>
>>>We want to convince the programmers to participate themselves :) But in case
>>>that is not possible, then someone else can operate the program on their behalf.
>>
>>I understand but it is possible that hyatt is not the only person who has
>>problems to participate not by operator.
>
>We already have Deep Sjeng registered to play by an operator.
>
>
>>
>>Uri



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