Author: Rolf Tueschen
Date: 10:31:37 05/21/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 21, 2004 at 05:36:26, Uri Blass wrote:
>On May 21, 2004 at 04:58:25, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>
>>On May 19, 2004 at 22:59:15, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On May 19, 2004 at 22:28:50, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>
>>>>main() {
>>>> search(10); // search 10 ply depthfirst
>>>>
>>>> for i = 1 to 10 // depth limited 1..10 ply search
>>>> search(i);
>>>>}
>>>>
>>>>search(int depth) {
>>>> if depth == 0
>>>> then return eval();
>>>> else for all moves
>>>> search(depth-1);
>>>>}
>>>>
>>>>Robert Morgan Hyatt doesn't seem to understand this in his thesis.
>>>
>>>
>>>Find any good ai book. Look up "depth first search". minimax and alpha/beta
>>>are examples. The idea is that the memory space requirement for depth-first is
>>>O(d) while the memory space requirement for breadth-first (the _only_
>>>alternative) is O(w^d).
>>>
>>>depth-first search
>>>
>>>(algorithm)
>>>
>>>Definition: (1) Any search algorithm which considers outgoing edges of a vertex
>>>before any neighbors of the vertex, that is, outgoing edges of the vertex's
>>>predecessor in the search. Extremes are searched first. This is easily
>>>implemented with recursion. (2) An algorithm which marks all vertices in a
>>>directed graph in the order they are discovered and finished, partitioning the
>>>graph into a forest.
>>>
>>>Also known as DFS.
>>>
>>>See also breadth-first search, best-first search.
>>>
>>>Note: [CLR90, pages 477-485]
>>>
>>>Author: PEB
>>>
>>>Or go here:
>>>
>>>http://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~cs251/OldCourses/1997/topic26/#dfs
>>>http://www2.toki.or.id/book/AlgDesignManual/BOOK/BOOK2/NODE65.HTM
>>>
>>>
>>>I showed this to a faculty member that teaches AI at another University. He
>>>responded "is this guy a clown, an idiot, or is he really that stupid?" I think
>>>that says it all.
>>>
>>>So it isn't "Robert Morgan Hyatt" that doesn't know what he is talking about.
>>>You need to look in the mirror. Once again you are _dead_ busted here. minimax
>>>and alpha-beta do _exactly_ as the above definition says. Just do a google
>>>search on depth-first search, read, and stop looking like a fool.
>>
>>As a psychologist I must defend VD what you want to get here is impossible to do
>>for him.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>And by all means _stop_ making up false definitions to suit your own agenda.
>>>You can't usurp the meaning of well-known AI terms and re-define them to mean
>>>something you choose.
>>>
>>>Yet one more big lie. When will you grow up and stop?
>>
>>As a psychologist with the neccessary physiological basics I must object.
>>Growth, in special growth of knowledge (intelligence is even more difficult to
>>influence by oneself), is not something one could change at will. Therefore I
>>wouldn't support the idea of an 'agenda', because that already would require too
>>much intelligence and knowledge. However weight is an open scale and can well be
>>influenced by too much eating, but of course you can't "eat" books, because
>>again that would require intelligence too... A devlish circle.
>>
>>;)
>
>Vincent has fide rating of 2294 based on the following link
>
>http://www.schaakbond.nl/rating/fide/fideap03.htm
>
>Do you think that you need more intelligence to learn what is depth-first than
>to get fide rating of 2294
>
>I do not think that lack of intelligence is Vincent's problem.
Of course it is, Uri. I must disagree with Bob. All the nonsense VD spreads
about Bob'a alleged faults in his papers and diss is only understandable if you
assume the intelligence rather low. Because VD is not even able to follow the
science Bob was using. Of course then it is also a case of a lack of respect and
politeness. Because how can a lay insult a veritable academican on his own
field?
But now to you own argument. You say that a chessmaster, and VD is a master,
must have a lot of intelligence to get thus far. I disagree. A good memory is
the basic talent for a chessmaster. 'Idiot savants' - this is a science term,
not an insult, often have a memory that is incredibly complex, but at the same
time they are like disabled autists. They cant cross a street so to speak. Of
course we can't call them "intelligent". The same with chessmasters. Of course
general chess GM hav several talents besides chess. They speak several
languages. etc. But to speak about VD, it is proven, yes, it is almost
'proofed', as VD would say himself, that Vincent can't follow the science of
Bob. Vincent certainly has an idea here and there and he makes short-cuts here
and there, but he doesn't understand the whole complex of such a research paper
nor can he discuss the arguments Bobs is presenting us here in public. Certainly
someone can be very intelligent and still be unable to understand what Bob is
talking about - let there be no misunderstanding. But in VD's case it is visible
that he does not care if he's wrong in 99% of the cases. If he only can
verbalize his usual insults (fraud and such).
In that view Bob's traditional tolerance must be criticised because in that case
he is making a clown out of himself if he argues with such a 99% loser. The more
so if he doesn't doubt Vincent's intelligence but thinks he's simply impolite
and uneducated. In that case arguments dont help. - But what would help? - Here
we have the central question. I for one have seen since long that VD is just
there to hold Bob busy with his nonsense. And Bob is in his own trap as a
teacher with endless tolerance and compassion. I would call this a modern form
of torture and I wished that collegues of Vincent would tear him by his ears.
For simply disgustful misbehavior towards one of the most famous and helpful
figures of CC. - As I said there is a whole lot of other experts who are
enjoying the continual Bob bashing by VD. Who? Well, just look at Bob's critic
of ICGA. Then you have it. But Bob's arguments were never refutated until this
very day. They can't refutated them. Therefore the agenda with VD. All IMO of
course... ;)
BTW I wish you all the best in the coming tournament. Hope to see you also in
the next CTG of course! ;)
>
>Uri
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