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Subject: Re: Opinions? A Crafty experiment...

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 17:37:31 05/24/04

Go up one level in this thread


On May 24, 2004 at 16:17:40, Arturo Ochoa wrote:

>On May 24, 2004 at 16:10:11, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On May 24, 2004 at 15:44:21, Arturo Ochoa wrote:
>>
>>>>>DIEP played two standard games against crafty yesterday on ICC with Vincent
>>>>>himself presiding (and pontificating).  DIEP lost them both.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I was wondering how long it would take for that information to make it
>>>>onto CCC.  Took longer than I thought. :)
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>James
>>>
>>>
>>>I agree. Considering how a big proportion of the posters of this Forum loves
>>>gossiping and spreading scandals, I missed that the information had not
>>>generated a big thread with all the garbage involved.
>>
>>
>>You missed a _lot_ of garbage by not watching.  Here is just a sample:
>>
>>Game 1:
>>
>>
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: and my book is by the way at random
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: internet book + at random
>>
>>
>>...
>>
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: but rook endgame gotta be draw
>>
>>...
>>
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: a4 looks stupid
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: but perhaps it enough to win  et's see
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: very stupid one
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: allows ra8 now
>>
>>(note for above crafty was white and played a4)
>>
>>...
>>
>>First game ended in Crafty winning.  There were probably 500 kibitzes by
>>Vincent, mostly about random noise such as value of pawn in Hydra, etc...
>>
>>Game 2:
>>
>>The below is apparently rambling about upcoming WCCC...
>>
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: shredder is big favourite
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: shredder 60% chance
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: i'm guessing i have 20
>>
>>...
>>
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: position looks = to me
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: so all my money on diep to win it :)
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: my nps is good now
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: 203k nps at 9 ply
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: cool
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: so i go win
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: +0.28
>>
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: hyatt denies crafty advanced btw
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: because otherwise cray blitz can't beat it of course :)
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: cray blitz from 1994 and before ;)
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: of course losing a queen
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: in diep queen = 11.50
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: rook = 5.8
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: piece = 3.625
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: and that's too little
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: i know most commercial programs like shredder
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: have piece = 4.2
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: that won't work
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: for programs without huge mobility term
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: put it at
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: rook = 6.0
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: piece = 4.0
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: queen = 12.5
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: pawn 1.000 here
>>Your opponent offers you a draw.
>>Use "draw" to accept.  The offer is valid until you make a move.
>>Offer to draw declined.
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: perhaps it's contempt factor of crafty that avoids draw
>>
>>(Crafty thought it was better and declined the draw.  It eventually was proven
>>to be the correct decision as it won).
>>
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: i have analyzed with world top 10 GM's several occasions
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: and they have no way to express what they think from a
>>position
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: they say the biggest crap
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: like
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: queen+knight is better than queen+bishop
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: such nonsense
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: this is Capablanca actually
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: then i ask GM
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: who also wrote about it
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: some English GM
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: and then he says
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: "but only when at 1 wing"
>>a
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: then i show him diep - jonny   world champs 2003
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: "but only when bishop not too strong"
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: "and knight very strong"
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: then i show him why diep won it
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: "but it is good here for white because diep has active
>>queen and safe king position"
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: their rules just suck ass
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: the average computerchess programmer knows 100x more
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: about evaluation
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: than any of those guys
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: simply because they are unable to formualte general rules
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: a general rule that works great for example is that a rook
>>is worth more than a knight
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: diep planning to lose now
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: c5????
>>
>>...
>>
>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: oh dear i don't get my king in h1
>>
>>
>>At that point I decided to leave.  I'd heard enough garbage for one afternoon...
>>
>>So yes, you missed a _lot_.  :)
>>
>>I left out his ranting about me not accepting to play a $1000 match...
>
>
>Posting this, you are giving me the reason. You save all this chat session and
>you post it here.

I started saving all the kibitzes/chan 64 tells a few weeks ago.  Several people
kept telling me about all the nonsense I had missed when Vincent was last on.  I
didn't really believe it was all _that_ bad until I started looking...


>
>You belong to the big proportion that I was refering to. This is incredible
>coming from your person.


No idea what that means.  You make statements, you get to stand by them and live
with them.  I do...




>
>Well, that is what I should expect. Nothing else. Excellent, when the people
>point out the facts for me. You did not have to do it!



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