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Subject: Re: Opinions? A Crafty experiment...

Author: Arturo Ochoa

Date: 10:48:40 05/25/04

Go up one level in this thread


On May 24, 2004 at 20:37:31, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On May 24, 2004 at 16:17:40, Arturo Ochoa wrote:
>
>>On May 24, 2004 at 16:10:11, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On May 24, 2004 at 15:44:21, Arturo Ochoa wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>DIEP played two standard games against crafty yesterday on ICC with Vincent
>>>>>>himself presiding (and pontificating).  DIEP lost them both.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I was wondering how long it would take for that information to make it
>>>>>onto CCC.  Took longer than I thought. :)
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>James
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I agree. Considering how a big proportion of the posters of this Forum loves
>>>>gossiping and spreading scandals, I missed that the information had not
>>>>generated a big thread with all the garbage involved.
>>>
>>>
>>>You missed a _lot_ of garbage by not watching.  Here is just a sample:
>>>
>>>Game 1:
>>>
>>>
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: and my book is by the way at random
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: internet book + at random
>>>
>>>
>>>...
>>>
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: but rook endgame gotta be draw
>>>
>>>...
>>>
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: a4 looks stupid
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: but perhaps it enough to win  et's see
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: very stupid one
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: allows ra8 now
>>>
>>>(note for above crafty was white and played a4)
>>>
>>>...
>>>
>>>First game ended in Crafty winning.  There were probably 500 kibitzes by
>>>Vincent, mostly about random noise such as value of pawn in Hydra, etc...
>>>
>>>Game 2:
>>>
>>>The below is apparently rambling about upcoming WCCC...
>>>
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: shredder is big favourite
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: shredder 60% chance
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: i'm guessing i have 20
>>>
>>>...
>>>
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: position looks = to me
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: so all my money on diep to win it :)
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: my nps is good now
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: 203k nps at 9 ply
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: cool
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: so i go win
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: +0.28
>>>
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: hyatt denies crafty advanced btw
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: because otherwise cray blitz can't beat it of course :)
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: cray blitz from 1994 and before ;)
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: of course losing a queen
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: in diep queen = 11.50
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: rook = 5.8
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: piece = 3.625
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: and that's too little
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: i know most commercial programs like shredder
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: have piece = 4.2
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: that won't work
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: for programs without huge mobility term
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: put it at
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: rook = 6.0
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: piece = 4.0
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: queen = 12.5
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: pawn 1.000 here
>>>Your opponent offers you a draw.
>>>Use "draw" to accept.  The offer is valid until you make a move.
>>>Offer to draw declined.
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: perhaps it's contempt factor of crafty that avoids draw
>>>
>>>(Crafty thought it was better and declined the draw.  It eventually was proven
>>>to be the correct decision as it won).
>>>
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: i have analyzed with world top 10 GM's several occasions
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: and they have no way to express what they think from a
>>>position
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: they say the biggest crap
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: like
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: queen+knight is better than queen+bishop
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: such nonsense
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: this is Capablanca actually
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: then i ask GM
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: who also wrote about it
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: some English GM
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: and then he says
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: "but only when at 1 wing"
>>>a
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: then i show him diep - jonny   world champs 2003
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: "but only when bishop not too strong"
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: "and knight very strong"
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: then i show him why diep won it
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: "but it is good here for white because diep has active
>>>queen and safe king position"
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: their rules just suck ass
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: the average computerchess programmer knows 100x more
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: about evaluation
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: than any of those guys
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: simply because they are unable to formualte general rules
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: a general rule that works great for example is that a rook
>>>is worth more than a knight
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: diep planning to lose now
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: c5????
>>>
>>>...
>>>
>>>DIEP(C DM) kibitzes: oh dear i don't get my king in h1
>>>
>>>
>>>At that point I decided to leave.  I'd heard enough garbage for one afternoon...
>>>
>>>So yes, you missed a _lot_.  :)
>>>
>>>I left out his ranting about me not accepting to play a $1000 match...
>>
>>
>>Posting this, you are giving me the reason. You save all this chat session and
>>you post it here.
>
>I started saving all the kibitzes/chan 64 tells a few weeks ago.  Several people
>kept telling me about all the nonsense I had missed when Vincent was last on.  I
>didn't really believe it was all _that_ bad until I started looking...
>
>

I dont know but where I see you personal battle and yuur arguments. I could also
write a Bible of nonsenses. So, I dont see your point. What do you mean?


>>
>>You belong to the big proportion that I was refering to. This is incredible
>>coming from your person.
>
>
>No idea what that means.  You make statements, you get to stand by them and live
>with them.  I do...
>
>

Well, that is not my work to explain you, neither I am willing to do it. If your
work is to fill  the Forum with scandales and gossip, you are in the average
group of posters of this Forum. Nothing else. :)


>
>
>>
>>Well, that is what I should expect. Nothing else. Excellent, when the people
>>point out the facts for me. You did not have to do it!



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