Author: blass uri
Date: 08:54:23 12/19/98
Go up one level in this thread
On December 18, 1998 at 16:16:06, Komputer Korner wrote: >On December 18, 1998 at 12:21:54, Christopher R. Dorr wrote: > >>On December 18, 1998 at 02:54:53, Komputer Korner wrote: >> >>>On December 17, 1998 at 09:50:25, Christopher R. Dorr wrote: >>> >>>>On December 16, 1998 at 17:11:20, Komputer Korner wrote: >>>> >>>>>This is good news about the CM7 opening book editor, but if they don't also add >>>>>the capability of analyzing in player player mode with the engine showing on >>>>>screen analysis and score eval while taking back and moving forward moves, then >>>>>ChessMaster will still remain a toy program. This is the single most important >>>>>feature in chess programs which all the high end programs have. >>>>>-- >>>>>Komputer Korner >>>> >>>> >>>>KK, exactly why do *you* get to decide what's the "single most important >>>>feature"? I've said it before, and I'm saying it again: I'm a USCF Master >>>>(pretty strong and serious), and I haven't used this feature in at least a year. >>>>My best friend is a USCF Master...he doesn't use it either. Our City Champion is >>>>a USCF 2300, and I asked him what he uses his computer for...he uses it to play >>>>games, and to analyse games from his students. >>>> >>>>So tell me....since we three serious, master-level players don't consider this >>>>feature very important *at all*, exactly how is it the 'single most important' >>>>feature? >>>> >>>>Yes, I know that you know chess software, but you simply don't speak for all (or >>>>probably evenb a majority) of computer-using chess players? >>>> >>>>Your obsessing on features that many consider trivial (opening book editor, this >>>>analysis mode) detracts from your toherwise informative and even-handed analysis >>>>of these programs. >>>> >>>>Chris Dorr >>>>USCF Life Master >>> >>>Well then you simply aren't using computers to their fullest extent in helping >>>you study chess. I don't care what your rating is. Even Kasparov uses player >>>player mode with on screen PV analysis to look at positions. He isn't looking at >>>the score evaluation of course but he is certainly looking at the PVs. Buy a top >>>rated prgram like Rebel 10, M-Chess Pro 8 , Junior 5 or the upcoming Hiarcs 7 >>>and use them properly to analyze positions and you will begin to understand how >>>to study chess with chess engines. Perhaps an opening book editor isn't that >>>important for some even though it has helped me win more than 1 game, but >>>analysis in player player mode with on screen analysis of PVs IS the most >>>important feature of a chess program. CM 6000 doesn't have that. It could be >>>possible to set up a macro with an add on utility as Richard Fowell says to work >>>around this but since all top chess programs have this feature, then I have the >>>right to call CM6000 a toy program without that feature. >>>-- >>>Komputer Korner >> >>KK, you obviously have the right to call *any* program a 'toy program', or >>anything else you want, for that matter. The problem lies in that by using these >>words you imply something derogatory about the program. >> >>This derogation is based on a feature that many people simply don't use. Many >>people simply want *almost exactly* what CM6K offers. They don't care about >>opening book editors, or on screen analysis. They want tutorials, or a database, >>or customizability, or playing strength. If these are the things that a person >>is looking for, then *these* are the MOST important features for that person. >>CM6K Offers exactly what I would want my USCF 900-1500 rated students to have. >>These people make up the *vast* majority of chess players (even the large >>majority of 'serious' tournament players. It is easy to setup, has a nice >>database, has good handicapping features, and a variety of opponents to play, >>and is cheap. Perhaps it would be *nice* if it had the things you are >>complaining about (just as it would be *nice* for Fritz 5 to have a standard >>Windows interface and play nice with other programs, or for Rebel 10 to be a >>Windows program), but *none* of these features are critical, especially to those >>who would never use them or worry about them. >> >>And about not using the computer to it's fullest potential...who does? My >>computer is a tool; my chess programs are a tool. They entertain me, or they >>educate me. My computer and programs are no different, in this respect, from my >>TV or my hammer. >> >>Who cares if I am using my hammer "to it's fullest potential". I care about >>whether it does what I need it to do. And that is different from what a >>professional carpenter would need it to do. My hammer isn't a 'toy' because it >>does something differently. >> >>I don't care if my TV has all the neatest 30,000 features that the most >>expensive one does. Doe my TV meet my needs? If it does, then it is the right >>one for me. >> >>Does CM6K meet my needs? If it does, then it is the right one for me. I believe >>labeling CM6K a toy because it doesn't have all the features that you would want >>in a perfect program is as unfair as someone labeling your reviews (which are >>generally excellent) a 'pretend' review' or an 'amateur' review simply because >>they don't like the way you do them, or don't like what you say. >> >>Words *do* matter; calling CM6K a "toy" program was bound to evoke a response; >>and it served no other purpose than to inflame. Your reviews clearly indicate >>how you feel about this program. Is it really necessary to put it this way? >> >>Chris Dorr >>USCF Life Master > >You are right but to the tournament player, CM 6000 is a toy chess program. You >being a tournament player should realize this and if you aren't using the player >player mode analysis features of top level programs, then you are missing out on >what chess programs can do for you. >-- >Komputer Korner You can analyze also with chessmaster by using take back and switch sides If you analyze every position with chessmaster for at least some minutes then you do not waste a lot time about it so this problem is not very important. If you analyze every position for only some seconds then chessmaster is not a good choice also because of the fact that chessmaster is not the best blitz player. Uri
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