Author: Frank E. Oldham
Date: 15:05:16 05/28/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 28, 2004 at 07:13:28, Uri Blass wrote:
>On May 28, 2004 at 06:10:57, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On May 27, 2004 at 21:46:19, Slater Wold wrote:
>>
>>>On May 27, 2004 at 07:44:26, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>[D]3rk1nr/p1p2ppp/2p1bq2/1p6/N2bP3/3B4/PPPQ1PPP/R1B2RK1 w k b6 0 11
>>>>
>>>>Movei suggests Nc3
>>>>
>>>>After c3 it can see a big advnatage for black.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>c3 was book for Shredder. And there is no big advantage for black after it.
>>>
>>>White(11): c3
>>> time used: 0.43
>>> time limit 2:59 (20:59)
>>> depth time score variation (1)
>>> 7 0.05 -1.72 11. ... bxa4 12. cxd4 Qxd4 13. Qg5
>>> Qxd3 14. Qxg7 Qd4
>>> 7-> 0.06 -1.72 11. ... bxa4 12. cxd4 Qxd4 13. Qg5
>>> Qxd3 14. Qxg7 Qd4
>>> 8 0.08 -1.73 11. ... bxa4 12. cxd4 Qxd4 13. Qg5
>>> Qxd3 14. Qxg7 Qd4 15. e5
>>> 8-> 0.11 -1.73 11. ... bxa4 12. cxd4 Qxd4 13. Qg5
>>> Qxd3 14. Qxg7 Qd4 15. e5
>>> 9 0.19 -1.77 11. ... bxa4 12. cxd4 Qxd4 13. Qg5
>>> a3 14. Rb1 Qxd3 15. Qxg7 Qd4
>>> 9-> 0.23 -1.77 11. ... bxa4 12. cxd4 Qxd4 13. Qg5
>>> a3 14. Rb1 Qxd3 15. Qxg7 Qd4
>>> 10 0.39 -1.78 11. ... bxa4 12. cxd4 Qxd4 13. Qg5
>>> a3 14. Rb1 Qxd3 15. Qxg7 Qd4 16. e5
>>> 10-> 0.53 -1.78 11. ... bxa4 12. cxd4 Qxd4 13. Qg5
>>> a3 14. Rb1 Qxd3 15. Qxg7 Qd4 16. e5
>>> 11 1.12 -1.70 11. ... bxa4 12. cxd4 Qxd4 13. Rd1
>>> Bg4 14. Re1 Qxd3 15. Qg5 Be6 16. Qxg7
>>> Qd4
>>> 11-> 1.53 -1.70 11. ... bxa4 12. cxd4 Qxd4 13. Rd1
>>> Bg4 14. Re1 Qxd3 15. Qg5 Be6 16. Qxg7
>>> Qd4
>>> 12 2.62 -1.53 11. ... bxa4 12. cxd4 Qxd4 13. Qg5
>>> a3 14. Be3 Qf6 15. Rad1 axb2 16. Qa5
>>> Rd7 17. Qxa7 Kf8
>>> 12-> 3.83 -1.53 11. ... bxa4 12. cxd4 Qxd4 13. Qg5
>>> a3 14. Be3 Qf6 15. Rad1 axb2 16. Qa5
>>> Rd7 17. Qxa7 Kf8
>>> 13 6.48 -1.31 11. ... bxa4 12. cxd4 Qxd4 13. Rd1
>>> Bg4 14. Re1 Qxd3 15. Qg5 Be6 16. Qxg7
>>> Qd4 17. e5 Qb4
>>> 13-> 9.34 -1.31 11. ... bxa4 12. cxd4 Qxd4 13. Rd1
>>> Bg4 14. Re1 Qxd3 15. Qg5 Be6 16. Qxg7
>>> Qd4 17. e5 Qb4
>>> 14 11.69 -1 11. ... bxa4
>>> 14 16.31 -0.83 11. ... bxa4 12. cxd4 Qxd4 13. Rd1
>>> Bg4 14. Re1 Qxd3 15. Qg5 Be6 16. Qxg7
>>> Qd4 17. e5 Qb4 18. Bg5
>>> 14-> 27.34 -0.83 11. ... bxa4 12. cxd4 Qxd4 13. Rd1
>>> Bg4 14. Re1 Qxd3 15. Qg5 Be6 16. Qxg7
>>> Qd4 17. e5 Qb4 18. Bg5
>>> 15 36.87 -1 11. ... bxa4
>>> 15 48.94 -0.35 11. ... bxa4 12. cxd4 Qxd4 13. Rd1
>>> Bg4 14. Re1 Ne7 15. Qg5 a3 16. Qxg4
>>> axb2 17. Bxb2 Qxb2 18. Rad1 O-O 19.
>>> Qg5 Rfe8
>>> 15-> 1:41 -0.35 11. ... bxa4 12. cxd4 Qxd4 13. Rd1
>>> Bg4 14. Re1 Ne7 15. Qg5 a3 16. Qxg4
>>> axb2 17. Bxb2 Qxb2 18. Rad1 O-O 19.
>>> Qg5 Rfe8
>>> 16 2:21 -0.32 11. ... bxa4 12. cxd4 Qxd4 13. Rd1
>>> Bg4 14. Re1 Qxd3 15. Qg5 h5 16. Qxg7
>>> Qd4 17. e5 Qe4 18. Bg5 Qh7 19. Qxh7
>>> Rxh7 20. Bxd8 Kxd8
>>> time=3:01 cpu=99% mat=0 n=430424046 fh=93% nps=2.38M
>>> ext-> chk=16330089 cap=1046124 pp=216947 1rep=1407144 mate=160993
>>> predicted=10 nodes=430424046 evals=110481009 50move=0
>>> endgame tablebase-> probes=0 hits=0
>>>
>>>As a matter of fact, Crafty never got an over -1.00 eval until move 52 (-1.04 @
>>>d17).
>>
>>I think that we can agree that black is better after the opening inspite of the
>>fact that we can argue about the question how much better.
>>
>>It is not normal for white to get to an inferior position from book.
>>I did not claim that black is winning after c3 but that black has a clear
>>advantage.
>>
>>Movei gives bigger advantage for black but I will also try to use it for more
>>time to see(the score went down from 2.57 at depth 10 to 0.77 pawns
>>at depth 14).
>>
>>
>>Uri
FYI, here's a search analysis from crafty through ply 20 -- c3 gets better as it
gets deeper:
White(1): setboard 3rk1nr/p1p2ppp/2p1bq2/1p6/N2bP3/3B4/PPPQ1PPP/R1B2RK1 w k
White(1): search c3
8 0.06 -1.85 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Qg5 Qxd3
4. Qxg7 Bc4
8-> 0.07 -1.85 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Qg5 Qxd3
4. Qxg7 Bc4
9 0.13 -1.84 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Qg5 a3 4.
Be3 Qxd3 5. Qxg7 axb2 6. Qxb2
9-> 0.14 -1.84 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Qg5 a3 4.
Be3 Qxd3 5. Qxg7 axb2 6. Qxb2
10 0.29 -1.89 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Qg5 a3 4.
Bf4 h6 5. Qg3 axb2 6. Rad1
10-> 0.30 -1.89 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Qg5 a3 4.
Bf4 h6 5. Qg3 axb2 6. Rad1
11 0.60 -1.76 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Qg5 h6 4.
Qg3 Qxd3 5. Qxg7 Qd4 6. e5
11-> 0.60 -1.76 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Qg5 h6 4.
Qg3 Qxd3 5. Qxg7 Qd4 6. e5
12 1.39 -1.80 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Rd1 Bg4
4. Re1 Qxd3 5. Qg5 Be6 6. Qxg7 Qd4
12-> 1.39 -1.80 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Rd1 Bg4
4. Re1 Qxd3 5. Qg5 Be6 6. Qxg7 Qd4
13 3.19 ++ 1. c3!!
13 5.39 -1.39 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Qg5 h6 4.
Qg3 a3 5. Be3 Qxd3 6. Qxg7 axb2 7.
Rae1 b1=Q 8. Rxb1
13-> 5.39 -1.39 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Qg5 h6 4.
Qg3 a3 5. Be3 Qxd3 6. Qxg7 axb2 7.
Rae1 b1=Q 8. Rxb1
14 10.08 -1.39 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Qg5 h6 4.
Qg3 a3 5. Be3 Qxd3 6. Qxg7 axb2 7.
Rae1 b1=Q 8. Rxb1
14-> 10.09 -1.39 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Qg5 h6 4.
Qg3 a3 5. Be3 Qxd3 6. Qxg7 axb2 7.
Rae1 b1=Q 8. Rxb1
15 19.15 ++ 1. c3!!
15 36.52 -0.72 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Qg5 a3 4.
Be3 Qf6 5. Rad1 axb2 6. Qg3 Rd7 7.
Bb1 Qg6 8. Qxg6 hxg6 9. Bxa7
15-> 36.53 -0.72 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Qg5 a3 4.
Be3 Qf6 5. Rad1 axb2 6. Qg3 Rd7 7.
Bb1 Qg6 8. Qxg6 hxg6 9. Bxa7
16 1:32 ++ 1. c3!!
16 2:56 -0.23 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Rd1 Bg4
4. Re1 Nf6 5. Re3 Be6 6. Qc2 Ng4 7.
Rg3 O-O 8. Bg5 f6
16-> 2:56 -0.23 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Rd1 Bg4
4. Re1 Nf6 5. Re3 Be6 6. Qc2 Ng4 7.
Rg3 O-O 8. Bg5 f6
17 4:35 -0.49 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Qg5 a3 4.
Be3 Qf6 5. Rad1 axb2 6. Qc5 Bxa2 7.
Bg5 Qd6 8. Bb5 Bd5 9. Bxc6+ Bxc6 10.
Rxd6 Rxd6 11. Qxa7
17-> 4:35 -0.49 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Qg5 a3 4.
Be3 Qf6 5. Rad1 axb2 6. Qc5 Bxa2 7.
Bg5 Qd6 8. Bb5 Bd5 9. Bxc6+ Bxc6 10.
Rxd6 Rxd6 11. Qxa7
18 9:06 -0.35 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Rd1 Bg4
4. Re1 Qxd3 5. Qg5 h5 6. Qxg7 Qd4 7.
e5 Qe4 8. Bh6 Qh7 9. Qf8+ Kd7 10. Rad1+
Bxd1 11. Rxd1+ Ke6 12. Rxd8 Qxh6 13.
Qxh6+ Rxh6 14. Rxg8 Kxe5
18-> 9:06 -0.35 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Rd1 Bg4
4. Re1 Qxd3 5. Qg5 h5 6. Qxg7 Qd4 7.
e5 Qe4 8. Bh6 Qh7 9. Qf8+ Kd7 10. Rad1+
Bxd1 11. Rxd1+ Ke6 12. Rxd8 Qxh6 13.
Qxh6+ Rxh6 14. Rxg8 Kxe5
19 20:15 -0.38 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Rd1 Bg4
4. Re1 Nf6 5. Re3 Be6 6. Qe2 a3 7.
Rb1 Bxa2 8. Ra1 Be6 9. Rxa3 O-O 10.
Rf3
19-> 20:15 -0.38 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Rd1 Bg4
4. Re1 Nf6 5. Re3 Be6 6. Qe2 a3 7.
Rb1 Bxa2 8. Ra1 Be6 9. Rxa3 O-O 10.
Rf3
20 77:36 -0.12 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Qg5 a3 4.
Be3 Qf6 5. Rad1 Qxg5 6. Bxg5 f6 7.
Bc1 axb2 8. Bxb2 Bxa2 9. e5 Bd5 10.
Rfe1 Kf7 11. exf6 Nxf6 12. Be5
20-> 77:36 -0.12 1. c3 bxa4 2. cxd4 Qxd4 3. Qg5 a3 4.
Be3 Qf6 5. Rad1 Qxg5 6. Bxg5 f6 7.
Bc1 axb2 8. Bxb2 Bxa2 9. e5 Bd5 10.
Rfe1 Kf7 11. exf6 Nxf6 12. Be5
? 21 77:45 1/30* 1. c3
White(1): ?
time=77:56 cpu=390% mat=0 n=10705561160 fh=91% nps=2.29M
ext-> chk=388208926 cap=25057513 pp=6553331 1rep=33625061
mate=3819027
predicted=0 nodes=10705561160 evals=4175679692
endgame tablebase-> probes=0 hits=0
SMP-> split=3085 stop=490 data=9/32 cpu=304:36 elap=77:56
Frank
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