Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 08:34:27 05/31/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 31, 2004 at 05:17:59, Sune Fischer wrote: >On May 30, 2004 at 21:52:48, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>>>Actually it does hurt. Many "operators" interfere in games by manually forcing >>>>moves, forcing the program to take longer, etc. Seeing the opponent's analysis >>>>can be used to further refine this "assistance"... >>> >>>Somehow I doubt it :) >> >>Doubt all you want. I've been playing on ICC for almost 10 years now. This is >>a _common_ problem, and many operators brag about it. One had finger notes that >>said "If you don't use your "move-now" button, you are not getting all you can >>get out of your chess program when playing other computers here." > >Yes, everybody is an expert on how to improve the already supertuned programs, >haven't you noticed? :) Yes. But it really doesn't take a lot to help a program even more, simply by helping it manage time. It can make a significant difference over the course of a long game. > > >>>I just can't picture one of these teenagers using Shredder against Crafty should >>>really care that much about Crafty's PVs, no offence. >> >>The number of teenagers is _low_. ICC isn't free. It is the 30-50 year olds >>that want to "get involved" and force moves, etc. > >Wow, so 30 year old 2000 Elo players cheat on ICC? >I really hope there aren't too many of those, what a waste of their time. There are _plenty_. :) ICC has even caught more than one IM cheating by using a computer. :) > >>>If this 1200 Elo youngster really believes he can improve his rating by >>>overruling Shredder in the attempt to outsmart Crafty, then by all means I'd let >>>him try! ;) >>> >> >>Forget the 1200 Elo youngsters. Think about the 1700-2000 rated humans. >> >>If you don't believe me, just ask around for those that play on ICC a lot. >>Bruce Moreland is a good person to query but there are lots of others... >> >Of course it happens, the question is if it works as well as they think. >To study Crafty's output, and then overrule Shredder based on that just sounds >like a very bad strategy to me. If your program likes a particular move, crafty is expecting that move, then you can move quickly. Or your program has one score, crafty's is different, you can "think longer" to see which is correct. Or Crafty's score is bad for Crafty, your score is about even, you can search longer to see if you see the problem Crafty found and play the right move. Etc... > >Again no offence, but Shredder should know better than what Crafty pridicts 2-3 >moves down the road :) That isn't the issue. And shredder doesn't always know what is best. Crafty is always on good hardware. Sometimes it sees more. Both good and bad "more"... > >>It happens _all_ the time... > >Yeah maybe, what do I know, maybe the disease really is worse than the cure. > >-S.
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