Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: New list WCCC participants and Free Hardware

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 07:10:20 06/02/04

Go up one level in this thread


On May 29, 2004 at 04:00:31, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:

>On May 28, 2004 at 21:27:16, Dann Corbit wrote:
>
>>I am guessing that the latest professional programs are not NUMA ready yet,
>>though probably Deep Sjeng is.
>
>The Opteron doesn't really need NUMA code for 4 way, although it may start
>to be an issue for 8 way.
>
>There are a few pitfalls, which Crafty was having issues with, but they are
>not hard to fix, and the top pro's don't seem the have them. See my tests at
>Graz with my machine there that I posted here - all of them scaled excellent.
>
>(including Deep Sjeng obviously :)
>
>>The faster the hardware, the better crafty does.  I think (compared to others)
>>crafty scales better.  That would indicate better algorithms and inferior
>>microoptimization.  Also, the other deep programs do not seem to benefit nearly
>>so much from multiple CPUs (though they may have possibly ironed this out).
>
>I have certainly seen no evidence for that - see my tests with them.
>
>>On the other hand, I suspect that if Deep Sjeng got the same 8 CPU machine, then
>>it would win.
>
>I don't think so. The program still has weaknesses that a bit of
>extra hardware will not overcome.
>
>>What sort of hardware are you bringing to the party?
>
>Uh, the provideed P4 2.8Ghz or maybe my Athlon64 2.2Ghz.
>
>>Now, Shredder Fritz and Junior might come on powerful hardware (e.g. 2.4 GHz AMD
>>64 bit dual) but I am guessing that would translate to about 3 GHz throughput.
>>[All the measurements I have seen showed them scaling very poorly]
>
>Again, I cannot confirm that at all! Also, both Junior and Fritz were
>already 4 way last year.
>
>>Crafty -125 Elo (Crafty 19.12 and 19.13 are huge improvements on the
>>predecessors)
>
>Crafty 18.12 is about 200 ELO worse than Shredder 8 - I wonder if
>there has been that much improvement in Crafty.
>
>>So Crafty would have to overcome about 175 Elo to be evenly matched against
>>Shredder in my crude model.  So, with an 8-way box he would have about
>>.65*2.4*8=12.5 GHz (let's say 12).  That would be about 4 times faster than
>>Shredder, Fritz or Junior.  With +70 Elo per doubling, that would be 140 Elo.
>>So crafty would have a real shot at it, even against Shredder.
>
>These maths seem rather flakey. First of all, 8 way does not mean 8 times
>faster. A good estimate is a speedup of 6 on an 8 way machine, and quite
>possibly less.


I assumed a bit less than 65% of each CPU would be the final throughput
achieved.

>Also, the SSDF has less than 70 ELO for a tripling of speed
>nowadays, so 70 for a doubling is also way too high.

Crafty seems to get an extra bonus from 64 bit math, though.

>Anyway, I'm happy that at least someone is reasoning about this. I think
>if you redo the math with the adjusted estimations, and compute the chance
>for Crafty to win the event, it'll most likely be 'statistically
>insignificant' :) And so it will be for Sjeng. Then you can understand
>where my 'claims' are coming from.

With just a handful of games, none of the competitors is chanceless.



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.