Author: Tord Romstad
Date: 09:26:34 06/05/04
Go up one level in this thread
On June 05, 2004 at 12:14:03, Uri Blass wrote:
>On June 05, 2004 at 10:59:22, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>
>>On June 05, 2004 at 10:53:14, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>
>>>On June 05, 2004 at 10:30:48, Daniel Shawul wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi
>>>>
>>>>My engine lost against Gothmog after playing Rg3?? in this position
>>>>
>>>[D]8/8/8/4k1K1/6R1/8/5rp1/8 w - - 0 1
>>>>
>>>>The position is in the 5 man TB but i don't have it yet.
>>>>DanChess searched to a depth of 18 and still can't solve this position.
>>>>What is the general guideline to evaluate this position? Should rook
>>>>pawn endgames(with more than one pawn in general) be evaluated differently?
>>>>
>>>>best
>>>>daniel
>>
>> There is no need to have tablebases here. Some endgame
>> knowledge would do the same. It's of course dead draw
>> as black's king will never be able to support its
>> pawn. The only thing for White is to keep its rook
>> where it is and to play Kg6/Kg5 and so on.
>> Kurt
>
>
>Some search can also do the same without lot of knowledge
>
>Here is some analysis of latest movei
>
>13 -176 4205 10834368 g4g3 f2f8 g5h6 f8h8 h6g7 h8h2 g3g4 e5f5 g4g3 f5f4 g3g6 f4
>f3 g7f6
>14 -228 7728 19816754 g4g3 f2f8 g5h6 f8h8 h6g7 h8h2 g3g4 e5f5 g4g3 f5f4 g3g6 f4
>e3 g6e6 e3f3 e6e1 f3f2
>14 -227 10356 26656758 g5g6
>14 -198 29157 71570225 g5g6
>14 -175 52458 125280528 g5g6 f2e2 g6g5 e2c2 g4g3 c2c8 g5h6 c8h8 h6g7 h8h2 g3g4
>e5f5 g4g6 f5f4 g7f6
>14 -175 52507 125405519 g5g6 f2e2 g6g5 e2c2 g4g3 c2c8 g5h6 c8h8 h6g7 h8h2 g3g4
>e5f5 g4g6 f5f4 g7f6
Some search is enough to find the right moves, but it is not enough to see that
the
position is a draw. If I understand the output correctly, Movei still thinks
that black
has a winning advantage. A program with a good KRPKR eval would be able to see
that this position was drawn many moves in advance, and try to simplify to this
position if it was trying to defend a difficult position in a more complicated
endgame.
Gothmog also doesn't do a very good job here, and thinks black is ahead by 0.91
(analysis on my slow old Macintosh PowerBook G4 550 MHz):
1 -0.81 0.00 34 Kh4
2 -0.81 0.00 95 Kh4
3 -0.81 0.01 234 Kh4 Rf4
4 -0.84 0.14 1109 Kh5
5 -0.81 0.23 4606 Kh5
6 >= -0.81 0.41 9330 Kg6
6 <= -0.81 0.43 10431 Kg6
6 -0.81 0.44 10431 Kg6
7 >= -0.81 0.65 20173 Kg6
7 <= -0.81 0.89 33415 Kg6
7 -0.81 0.90 33415 Kg6
8 <= -0.84 0.96 39669 Kg6 Re2 Kh5 Kf5 Rg7 g1Q Rxg1 Rh2#
8 >= -0.84 0.98 40780 Kg6 Re2 Kh5 Kf5 Rg5+ Kf4 Kh4
8 -0.84 0.98 40780 Kg6 Re2 Kh5 Kf5 Rg5+ Kf4 Kh4
9 >= -0.84 1.21 57644 Kg6 Re2 Kg5 Rd2 Kh4
9 <= -0.84 1.31 68268 Kg6 Re2 Kg5 Rd2 Kh4
9 -0.84 1.40 68268 Kg6 Re2 Kg5 Rd2 Kh4
10 <= -0.88 1.85 109864 Kg6 Rd2 Kh5 Kf5 Rg5+ Kf4 Kh4 Rf2 Rg6 g1Q
Rxg1 Rh2#
10 <= -0.91 1.94 120455 Kg6 Rd2 Kh5 Kf5 Rg5+ Kf4 Kh4 g1Q Rxg1 Rh2#
10 >= -0.94 2.20 142608 Kg6 Rd2 Kg5 Rd8 Kh6 Rh8+ Kg7 Rh2 Kg6
10 >= -0.91 2.22 143571 Kg6 Rd2 Kg5 Rd8 Kh6 Rh8+ Kg7 Rh2 Kg6
10 -0.91 2.22 143571 Kg6 Rd2 Kg5 Rd8 Kh6 Rh8+ Kg7 Rh2 Kg6
11 >= -0.91 2.99 235087 Kg6 Rd2 Kg5 Rd8 Kh6 Rh8+ Kg7 Rh2 Kg6
11 <= -0.91 3.30 254172 Kg6 Rd2 Kg5 Rd8 Kh6 Rh8+ Kg7 Rh2 Kg6
11 -0.91 3.30 254172 Kg6 Rd2 Kg5 Rd8 Kh6 Rh8+ Kg7 Rh2 Kg6
12 >= -0.91 4.38 390188 Kg6 Rd2 Kg5 Rd8 Kh6 Rh8+ Kg7 Rh2 Kg6
12 <= -0.91 4.66 410197 Kg6 Rd2 Kg5 Rd8 Kh6 Rh8+ Kg7 Rh2 Kg6
12 -0.91 4.67 410197 Kg6 Rd2 Kg5 Rd8 Kh6 Rh8+ Kg7 Rh2 Kg6
13 >= -0.91 6.60 662218 Kg6 Rd2 Kg5 Rd8 Kh6 Rh8+ Kg7 Rh2 Kg6
13 <= -0.91 7.03 698234 Kg6 Rd2 Kg5 Rd8 Kh6 Rh8+ Kg7 Rh2 Kg6
13 -0.91 7.04 698234 Kg6 Rd2 Kg5 Rd8 Kh6 Rh8+ Kg7 Rh2 Kg6
14 >= -0.91 10.38 1156974 Kg6 Rd2 Kg5 Rd8 Kh6 Rh8+ Kg7 Rh2 Kg6
14 <= -0.91 10.98 1215225 Kg6 Rd2 Kg5 Rd8 Kh6 Rh8+ Kg7 Rh2 Kg6
14 -0.91 10.99 1215225 Kg6 Rd2 Kg5 Rd8 Kh6 Rh8+ Kg7 Rh2 Kg6
15 >= -0.91 15.96 1904395 Kg6 Rd2 Kg5 Rd8 Kh6 Rh8+ Kg7 Rh2 Kg6
15 <= -0.91 16.68 1980870 Kg6 Rd2 Kg5 Rd8 Kh6 Rh8+ Kg7 Rh2 Kg6
15 -0.91 16.69 1980870 Kg6 Rd2 Kg5 Rd8 Kh6 Rh8+ Kg7 Rh2 Kg6
16 >= -0.91 24.82 3107828 Kg6 Rd2 Kg5 Rd8 Kh6 Rh8+ Kg7 Rh2 Kg6
16 <= -0.91 26.09 3244560 Kg6 Rd2 Kg5 Rd8 Kh6 Rh8+ Kg7 Rh2 Kg6 Rh8
Kg7
16 -0.91 26.10 3244560 Kg6 Rd2 Kg5 Rd8 Kh6 Rh8+ Kg7 Rh2 Kg6 Rh8
Kg7
Tord
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