Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 13:59:42 06/07/04
Go up one level in this thread
On June 07, 2004 at 10:13:08, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >On June 06, 2004 at 05:41:03, GuyHaworth wrote: > >> >>A richer context for your question would be informative: >> >>a) What do the German Police say in their letter? >> A good translation into English would be helpful > >basically the police says they want eye witness reports whether someone managed >to obtain via ebay a chessproduct called 'nalimov egtb's'. > >they do as if it is a 'chessproduct'. > >this where we all know it's a collection of EGTB files. > >>b) What is the 'relationship' between the 11 Tablebase CDs you bought ... >> ... and Chessbase offerings. > >the relationship is that not chessbase earned on these cdroms but others, so >they file a complaint. > >> [ I am assuming that the concern is related to Chessbase here. ] >> >> >>The national and international nuances of the law here are something I should >>know more about. There are, I believe, international initiatives to harmonise > >it is very simple, if nalimov says there is no copyrights on his EGTBs and >everybody can copy them for free, then you can do so, and free software >distributors can charge small copy costs for the egtbs. > >if nalimov says there is authorship on his egtb's and only chessbase has the >right to sell it, it means that if he can prove he has not done statements >before that say something else, that the person in question offering them >'systematically' at ebay will go to jail. > >It's not chessbase sueing, it's the police who investigates whether someone has >sold illegal cdroms. it explicitly mentions the cdroms are not 'copies' but >'professional made' cdroms. > >>the law on copyright and 'electronic theft'. > >every state in europe has different laws here. some countries go further than >others. > >>Unless Chessbase have 'watermarked' their published version of Eugene's files - >>and I don't think the 'header' of the file allows for that - there is no way >>afaik to tell whether an 'EN table' has come from Chessbase's CD or been ftp'd >>from the web. > >if the egtb files fall under the author right, because nalimov has himself >generated them, then the case is more complicated. > >> >>Chessbase 'provide value' in that they: >>a) deliver the tables to you and save you download time > >you refer to the 'copy costs' which is true in case nalimov doesn't do claims >which are validated. In other cases things are not so easy and very complicated >from a law viewpoint. > >For example you are not allowed to sell a cd with selftaken pictures in GIF >format, because GIF is a patented file format. > >(i deliberately say pictures and not mp3's, because music things are complete >crazy with the music maffia organized within RIAAA, i've been negotiating with >those chaps in the past myself so i can be a witness that the organisations >under that umbrella BUMRA/STEMRA/SEMA in netherlands they are completely away >from this planet and avoid good popsongs from even having good instrumental >music; they must all use synthezisers because if you do not use them the music >maffia will ask money for each instrument that is played by a person X who once >signs up with them). > >>b) provide you with CD-storage, useful if you want to later delete the files >> ok: it's not as inexpensive as buying your own blank CDs >> >>c) provide assurance that the EN tables are 'correct' >> well, I would have said this until recently re the 6-man glitch >> >>So, clearly, their _collection_ and _publication_ of tables benefits from >>copyright protection, even though the individual tables do not. > >Things are not so clear at all. the only clear thing is that when Nalimov says >he never has sold rights to chessbase to sell the EGTBs, but that everyone is >free to copy the files, that there is no more police criminal investigation into >this matter. > >I expect however Nalimov to say nothing, as usual, and then things remain >unclear. > >I do not know the person in question who sold things on ebay, but i can assure >you he makes a chance to go to jail there in germany when nalimov says chessbase >has the legal right to sell them and no one else. > >> >>guy If I didn't know better I'd suspect the claim revolves around person A buying a set of CDs, then copying the contents to his computer, then selling the set of CDs on Ebay. _that_ would make sense although I have a hard time believing it would come close to standing up in court since the exact same data is available on my ftp box here absolutely free. And if I copy tables off a purchased CD, the tables are _not_ the product or property of the CD maker... And there is no way to say "this table came from Hyatt's ftp site and _this_ table came from our CD..." This ought to be interesting to watch to see who is doing what to whom, and how...
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