Author: Uri Blass
Date: 04:16:05 06/16/04
Go up one level in this thread
On June 16, 2004 at 07:00:31, Uri Blass wrote: >On June 16, 2004 at 05:25:25, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On June 16, 2004 at 03:06:01, Matthias Gemuh wrote: >> >>>On June 16, 2004 at 01:04:11, chandler yergin wrote: >>> >>>>Kasparov wrote a nice article on the great Tal - Smyslov game, which appears in >>>>this months Chess Life. >>>>He used Fritz for some of the analysis. >>>> >>>>I refer to Pg 19 left column where he presents 13 ....Bd8 >>>>He states: >>>>"If Black had played 13..Bc5?, then Tal's fantastic idea would >>>>have appeared in all its glory: >>>>14Qh4 bxc4 15.Bc3!. >>>>Believe it or not, Black is defensless against the numerous threats >>>>(Rxd7, Nxg7, Qg5, Ng5), for example: >>>>15...Qxa2 16.Rxd7 Bxd7 17.Nh6+ Kh8 18.Qxf6!! with Mate." >>>> >>>>I was skeptical of this, and checked it with Fritz. >>>>Position after 15 Bc3 >>> >>>[D]r1b2rk1/p2n1ppp/q1p2n2/2b2N2/2p4Q/2B2N2/PPP2PPP/2KR3R b - - 0 15 >>> >>>> >>>>Continuing with his Analysis; after 15....Qa2 16.Rd7 >>>>r1b2rk1/p2R1ppp/2p2n2/2b2N2/2p4Q/2B2N2/qPP2PPP/2K4R b - - 0 16 >>>>16... Bb4!! Saves the game. It took Fritz 0.01 seconds, so I don't see how he >>>>could have missed it. >>>>I wonder if he left out this analysis on purpose? >> >>It does not take my fritz 0.01 seconds >> >>I get analysis with Fritz by using the mouse and >>clip analysis >> >>New game, >>r1b2rk1/p2R1ppp/2p2n2/2b2N2/2p4Q/2B2N2/qPP2PPP/2K4R b - - 0 1 >> >>Analysis by Fritz 8: >> >>2...h6! >> -+ (-3.06) Depth: 5/26 00:00:00 138kN >>2...h6! >> -+ (-3.22) Depth: 5/26 00:00:00 144kN >>2...h6 3.Bxf6 Bxd7 4.Qg3 Qa1+ 5.Kd2 >> -+ (-3.25) Depth: 5/26 00:00:00 148kN >>2...h6-- >> -+ (-2.97) Depth: 6/24 00:00:00 164kN >>2...h6 >> +- (9.72) Depth: 6/31 00:00:01 345kN >>2...Bb4! >> +- (9.69) Depth: 6/31 00:00:01 347kN >>2...Bb4! >> +- (9.53) Depth: 6/31 00:00:01 347kN >>2...Bb4! >> +- (9.22) Depth: 6/31 00:00:01 348kN >>2...Bb4! >> +- (8.56) Depth: 6/31 00:00:01 348kN >>2...Bb4 >> ³ (-0.38) Depth: 6/31 00:00:01 419kN >>2...Be3+! >> ³ (-0.41) Depth: 6/31 00:00:01 474kN >>2...Be3+! >> ³ (-0.56) Depth: 6/31 00:00:01 479kN >>2...Be3+! >> µ (-0.88) Depth: 6/31 00:00:01 487kN >>2...Be3+! >> -+ (-1.50) Depth: 6/31 00:00:01 497kN >>2...h5! >> -+ (-1.53) Depth: 6/31 00:00:01 649kN >>2...h5! >> -+ (-1.69) Depth: 6/31 00:00:01 675kN >>2...h5! >> -+ (-2.00) Depth: 6/31 00:00:02 723kN >>2...h5 3.Nh6+ Kh7 4.Rdd1 Bxf2 5.Ng5+ Kxh6 6.Qxf2 Qa1+ 7.Kd2 Rd8+ 8.Ke2 Bg4+ >> -+ (-2.22) Depth: 6/31 00:00:02 780kN >>2...h5-- >> -+ (-1.94) Depth: 7/28 00:00:02 933kN >>2...h5 3.Nh6+ Kh7 >> -+ (-1.94) Depth: 7/30 00:00:03 1103kN >>2...h5 3.Nh6+ Kh7 4.Rdd1 gxh6 5.Bxf6 >> -+ (-1.94) Depth: 8/29 00:00:05 1731kN >>2...h5-- >> -+ (-1.66) Depth: 9/33 00:00:08 3118kN >>2...h5 3.Bxf6 Bd6 4.Nxd6 Bxd7 5.Qg5 g6 6.Re1 Rfb8 7.Qh6 >> +- (1.56) Depth: 9/40 00:00:20 7927kN >>2...Qa1+! >> +- (1.53) Depth: 9/40 00:00:23 9173kN >>2...Be3+! >> +- (1.50) Depth: 9/40 00:00:25 10078kN >>2...Be3+! >> ± (1.34) Depth: 9/40 00:00:25 10097kN >>2...Be3+! >> ± (1.03) Depth: 9/40 00:00:25 10127kN >>2...Be3+! >> ² (0.41) Depth: 9/40 00:00:25 10179kN >>2...Be3+ 3.fxe3 Qa1+ 4.Kd2 Qxh1 5.Nh6+ Kh8 6.Nxf7+ Rxf7 7.Rxf7 Qxg2+ 8.Kc1 Kg8 >>9.Ne1 Qe2 >> = (-0.19) Depth: 9/40 00:00:26 10614kN >>2...Bb4! >> = (-0.22) Depth: 9/40 00:00:31 12386kN >>2...Bb4! >> ³ (-0.38) Depth: 9/40 00:00:31 12535kN >>2...Bb4 3.Nh6+ Kh8 4.Qxf6 Qa1+ 5.Kd2 gxf6 6.Nxf7+ Kg7 7.Rxa1 Bxd7 8.Bxb4 Rxf7 >>9.Kc3 Bg4 10.Nd4 >> = (-0.19) Depth: 10/35 00:00:34 13469kN >>2...Bb4 3.Nh6+ Kh8 4.Qxf6 Qa1+ 5.Kd2 gxf6 6.Nxf7+ Kg7 7.Rxa1 Bxd7 8.Bxb4 Rxf7 >>9.Kc3 Bg4 10.Nd4 >> = (-0.19) Depth: 11/35 00:00:51 20713kN >>2...Bb4 3.Nh6+ Kh8 4.Qxf6 Qa1+ 5.Kd2 gxf6 6.Nxf7+ Kg7 7.Rxa1 Bxd7 8.Bxb4 Rxf7 >>9.Kc3 Be6 10.Nd4 >> = (-0.25) Depth: 12/42 00:01:39 41480kN >>2...Bb4 3.Nh6+ Kh8 4.Qxf6 Qa1+ 5.Kd2 gxf6 6.Nxf7+ Kg7 7.Rxa1 Bxd7 8.Bxb4 Rxf7 >>9.Kc3 Be6 >> = (-0.25) Depth: 13/45 00:03:42 94863kN >> >>(Blass, Tel-Aviv 16.06.2004) >> >> >>I also suspect that 3.Nh6+ is wrong and the team of me and Fritz finds >>in a few minutes 3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 >> >>Maybe there are better moves because I did not do serious analysis >> >>Uri > >Some more analysis by yace suggest that black has nothing better than the line >that I posted and yace leasrned the following after Bb4 > >It seems that Bb4 does not save the game. > >New game, >[D]r1b2rk1/p2R1ppp/2p2n2/5N2/1bp4Q/2B2N2/qPP2PPP/2K4R w - - 0 1 > >Analysis by Yace Paderborn: > >3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 Re2 9.Qf3 Re6 10.Nf5 >Rfe8 11.Nb1 Qa4 12.Qg3 > ± (0.76) Depth: 1 00:00:00 >3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 Re2 9.Qf3 Re6 10.Nf5 >Rfe8 11.Nb1 Qa4 12.Qg3 > ± (0.76) Depth: 1 00:00:00 >3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 Re2 9.Qf3 Re6 10.Nf5 >Rfe8 11.Nb1 Qa4 12.Qg3 > ± (0.76) Depth: 2 00:00:00 >3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 Re2 9.Qf3 Re6 10.Nf5 >Rfe8 11.Nb1 Qa4 12.Qg3 > ± (0.76) Depth: 2 00:00:00 >3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 Re2 9.Qf3 Re6 10.Nf5 >Rfe8 11.Nb1 Qa4 12.Qg3 > ± (0.76) Depth: 3 00:00:00 >3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 Re2 9.Qf3 Re6 10.Nf5 >Rfe8 11.Nb1 Qa4 12.Qg3 > ± (0.76) Depth: 3 00:00:00 >3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 Re2 9.Qf3 Re6 10.Nf5 >Rfe8 11.Nb1 Qa4 12.Qg3 > ± (0.76) Depth: 4 00:00:00 >3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 Re2 9.Qf3 Re6 10.Nf5 >Rfe8 11.Nb1 Qa4 12.Qg3 > ± (0.76) Depth: 4/15 00:00:00 >3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 Re2 9.Qf3 Re6 10.Nf5 >Rfe8 11.Nb1 Qa4 12.Qg3 > ± (0.76) Depth: 5/15 00:00:00 >3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 Re2 9.Qf3 Re6 10.Nf5 >Rfe8 11.Nb1 Qa4 12.Qg3 > ± (0.76) Depth: 5/15 00:00:00 >3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 Re2 9.Qf3 Re6 10.Nf5 >Rfe8 11.Nb1 Qa4 12.Qg3 > ± (0.76) Depth: 6/20 00:00:00 96kN >3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 Re2 9.Qf3 Re6 10.Nf5 >Rfe8 11.Nb1 Qa4 12.Qg3 > ± (0.76) Depth: 6/22 00:00:00 291kN >3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 Re2 9.Qf3 Re6 10.Nf5 >Rfe8 11.Nb1 Qa4 12.Qg3 > ± (0.76) Depth: 7/22 00:00:00 291kN >3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 Re2 9.Qf3 Re6 10.Nf5 >Rfe8 11.Nb1 Qa4 12.Qg3 > ± (0.76) Depth: 7/26 00:00:02 984kN >3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 Re2 9.Qf3 Re6 10.Nf5 >Rfe8 11.Nb1 Qa4 12.Qg3 > ± (0.76) Depth: 8/26 00:00:03 984kN >3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 Re2 9.Qf3 Re6 10.Nf5 >Rfe8 11.Nb1 Qa4 12.Qg3 > ± (0.76) Depth: 8/33 00:00:10 4184kN >3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 Re2 9.Qf3 Re6 10.Nf5 >Rfe8 11.Nb1 Qa4 12.Qg3 > ± (0.76) Depth: 9/33 00:00:10 4184kN >3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 Re2 9.Qf3 Re6 10.Nf5 >Rfe8 11.Nb1 Qa4 12.Qg3 > ± (0.76) Depth: 9/34 00:00:31 13828kN >3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 Re2 9.Qf3 Re6 10.Nf5 >Rfe8 11.Nb1 Qa4 12.Qg3 > ± (0.76) Depth: 10/34 00:00:31 13828kN >3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 Re2 9.Qf3 Re6 10.Nf5 >Rfe8 11.Nb1 Qa4 12.Qg3 > ± (0.76) Depth: 10/38 00:01:45 46579kN >3.Bxb4 Bxd7 4.Nh6+ Kh8 5.Bc3 Ne4 6.Qxe4 Rae8 7.Qf4 f6 8.Nd2 Re2 9.Qf3 Re6 10.Nf5 >Rfe8 11.Nb1 Qa4 12.Qg3 > ± (0.76) Depth: 11/38 00:01:45 46579kN > >(Blass, Tel-Aviv 16.06.2004) > >Uri When I continue to go back with yace it seems that after Qxa2 black is losing the game. Note that +0.76 evaluation is usually not something that I see as winning and the evaluation of yace is only part of the reason that I believe that white is winning. Yace suggests Re8 with a draw score instead of Qxa2 when I go back but it is possible that it did not see deep enough. Uri
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