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Subject: Re: Chessmaster 6000 Plays alot like Mikhail Tal! - Mate in 16

Author: Steven J. Brann

Date: 06:42:40 06/19/04

Go up one level in this thread


On June 19, 2004 at 05:46:18, George Tsavdaris wrote:

>On June 18, 2004 at 22:04:33, mike tubbs wrote:
>
>>On June 18, 2004 at 21:00:23, John Merlino wrote:
>>
>>>On June 18, 2004 at 19:20:31, mike tubbs wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 18, 2004 at 17:31:26, George Tsavdaris wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On June 18, 2004 at 17:01:35, mike tubbs wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On June 18, 2004 at 16:18:12, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On June 18, 2004 at 14:35:48, John Merlino wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On June 18, 2004 at 14:31:56, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On June 18, 2004 at 13:25:50, mike tubbs wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  The author of this amazing engine in my opinion has created a style very
>>>>>>>>>>similar to Mikhail Tal and Garry Kasparov. Has anyone else noticed this? One of
>>>>>>>>>>the Signitures of CM6000 style is the pawn sacrifice, which is usually for
>>>>>>>>>>active piece play. Many here speak of Rebel and Hiarcs as the most human like
>>>>>>>>>>programs, actually i think CM6000 deserves this singular honour.  I also like
>>>>>>>>>>CM9000 but it plays alot less risky then CM6000 and doesn't sacrifice material
>>>>>>>>>>as much.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You know that Johan de Koning wrote 4000, 5000, 6000, 8000, and 9000, all based
>>>>>>>>>on the King program, don't you?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Don't forget 5500, 7000 and the upcoming 10th Edition. :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>But that doesn't mean that there couldn't have been significant changes in the
>>>>>>>>playing style of the engine between versions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>jm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Oh I didn't forget, there was a small upgrade between 5000, and 5500. CM7K was
>>>>>>>basically 6K with a new interface.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I think Chessmaster/King Program is very tactical, one of the best and the King
>>>>>>>of spotting mates, but not the most human of all engines and certainly not Tal..
>>>>>>>it would get into trouble with unsound sacs!;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Daniel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess it's just a matter of opinion, I think it's better then tal and didn't
>>>>>>make the same unsound sacrifices he did, if tal was to play his crap on
>>>>>>chessmaster he would have gotten rolled, but i'm sure he is smart enough not to
>>>>>>try his crap against it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>His crap??????   You are kidding right?
>>>>
>>>> It's well known that tal made alot of unsound sacrifices, thus the expression
>>>>"his Crap"!
>>>
>>>Yep, that World Champion Mikhail Tal sure played a lot of crappy moves....
>
> I know, but please don't call them crappy. Just say them "not best moves". The
>man was a genius and we should have a little more respect on it's moves.
> And although sometimes the moves were not the best, most times they were
>achieving their goal to make the opponent to get lost into complications and
>lose. You know that when one sacrifice is being made and the right move is to
>refute it, then it's VERY difficult to find the proper defence. That happened
>million times in the games of M.Tal.
>
>>>
>>>jm
>>
>>
>>And Chessmaster would punish them mercilessly.
>
> The key to human evolution is adaptability. If Tal, Morphy or anyone from the
>"olds", played for the first time a couple of games with todays chess engines it
>would surely lose, but after more games it would start to realise the machine's
>capabilities and would be more careful, so at the end he would be even (equal)
>with the machine. Just like super GM's are now.
>
> And don't believe that CM6000 can ever play like M.Tal. It gives pawns for
>having the initiative but it can't create the amazing positions with the amazing
>(and wrong sometimes) sacrifices M.Tal did.
>
> Anyway, as far as i can say, you are right that CM6000 is the most aggressive
>from all Chessmaster series except CM5500 (the only CM i don't have). I have
>tried many times to create a personality that plays with at least 20% the style
>of M.Tal, but i always failed. The method was to play many games with other
>engines and find a satisfactory aggressive/sacrificing play. And also i had a
>dozen of testpositions with M.Tal moves that they must be played by the
>CM-personality. I always started with this nice position:
>
>White to play Rxg7!! and win.
>
>[D]r1bq1k1r/1p2b1pp/p4p2/3NQ2B/1P1pP3/8/2PK3P/3R2R1 w - - 0 22

Chessmaster 9000 on a 3.0G P4, using SKR SS=16 sees a nice positive score in 15
seconds then goes on to identify a Mate in 16 in 10 minutes.   Nice.

Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
0:00	1/3	0.64	1914		22.Qxe7+ Qxe7 23.Nxe7 Kxe7 24.Rxg7+
					Kd6 25.Rf1 Ke5
0:00	1/4	0.78	5019		22.Qxe7+ Qxe7 23.Nxe7 Kxe7 24.Rxg7+
					Kd6 25.Rf1 Ke5 26.Re7+ Kd6
0:00	1/4	0.93	9486		22.Rdf1 Bd6 23.Qg5 Bxb4+ 24.Nxb4
					Qe7
0:00	1/5	0.75	38033		22.Rdf1 h6 23.Nxe7 Qxe7 24.Qxe7+
					Kxe7 25.Rxg7+ Ke6 26.c3 Ke5 27.cxd4+
					Kxd4 28.Rxf6 Kxe4
0:00	1/6	1.02	71703		22.Rdf1 h6 23.Nxe7 Qxe7 24.Qxe7+
					Kxe7 25.Rxg7+ Kd6 26.Rxf6+ Ke5
					27.Rgf7 Kxe4
0:00	1/7	1.03	191502		22.Rdf1 h6 23.Nxe7 Qxe7 24.Qxe7+
					Kxe7 25.Rxg7+ Kd6 26.Rxf6+ Ke5
					27.Rgf7 Be6
0:04	1/8	1.12	1272147		22.Rdf1 a5 23.Nxe7 Qxe7 24.Qxe7+
					Kxe7 25.Rxg7+ Kd6 26.Rxf6+ Ke5
					27.Rff7 h6 28.bxa5 Rxa5
0:11	1/9	1.11	3286046		22.Rdf1 a5 23.Nxe7 Qxe7 24.Qxe7+
					Kxe7 25.Rxg7+ Kd6 26.Rxf6+ Ke5
					27.Rff7 h6 28.Kd3 axb4 29.Rg6
0:15	1/9	2.57	4638095		22.Rxg7 Kxg7 23.Rg1+ Kh6 24.Qf4+
					Kxh5 25.Qf3+ Kh6 26.Qg3 Qxd5 27.exd5
					Kh5 28.Qf3+ Kh6 29.Qe4 Kh5 30.Qxe7
					Bg4 31.Qxf6
0:21	1/10	2.92	6837823		22.Rxg7 Kxg7 23.Rg1+ Kh6 24.Qf4+
					Kxh5 25.Qf3+ Kh6 26.Qg3 Qxd5 27.exd5
					Kh5 28.Qf3+ Kh6 29.Qe4 Kh5 30.Qe2+
					Kh4 31.Qxe7 Bg4 32.Qxf6+ Kh5 33.Qxd4
0:39	1/11	3.26	13261649	22.Rxg7 Kxg7 23.Rg1+ Kh6 24.Qf4+
					Kxh5 25.Qf3+ Kh6 26.Qg3 Qxd5 27.exd5
					Kh5 28.Qf3+ Kh6 29.Qe4 Kh5 30.Qxe7
					Bf5 31.Qxf6 Bg4 32.Qf7+ Kg5 33.Qxb7
1:40	1/12	9.58	35898401	22.Rxg7 Kxg7 23.Rg1+ Kh6 24.Qf4+
					Kxh5 25.Qf3+ Kh6 26.Qg3 Qxd5 27.exd5
					Kh5 28.Qf3+ Kh6 29.Qe4 Kh5 30.Qxe7
					h6 31.Qf7+ Kh4 32.Qxf6+ Kh5 33.Qg6+
					Kh4 34.Qg3+ Kh5 35.Qe5+ Kh4 36.Qxd4+
					Kh5 37.Qe5+
4:30	1/13	13.60	100405693	22.Rxg7 Kxg7 23.Rg1+ Kh6 24.Qf4+
					Kxh5 25.Qf3+ Kh6 26.Qg3 Qxd5 27.exd5
					Kh5 28.Qf3+ Kh6 29.Qe4 Kh5 30.Qxe7
					Bf5 31.Qxf6 Rag8 32.Qxf5+ Kh4 33.Rxg8
					Rxg8 34.Qxh7+ Kg4 35.Qxg8+ Kf5
10:03	1/14	Mate16	237112042	22.Rxg7 Kxg7 23.Rg1+ Kh6 24.Qf4+
					Kxh5 25.Qf3+ Kh6 26.Qg3 Qxd5 27.exd5
					Kh5 28.Qf3+ Kh6 29.Qe4 Kh5 30.Qe2+
					Kh4 31.Qxe7 h6 32.Qxf6+ Kh5 33.h4
					Rg8 34.Qf7+ Kxh4 35.Qf4+ Kh5 36.Qh2+
					Bh3 37.Qxh3#

Steve



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