Author: Steven J. Brann
Date: 06:42:40 06/19/04
Go up one level in this thread
On June 19, 2004 at 05:46:18, George Tsavdaris wrote: >On June 18, 2004 at 22:04:33, mike tubbs wrote: > >>On June 18, 2004 at 21:00:23, John Merlino wrote: >> >>>On June 18, 2004 at 19:20:31, mike tubbs wrote: >>> >>>>On June 18, 2004 at 17:31:26, George Tsavdaris wrote: >>>> >>>>>On June 18, 2004 at 17:01:35, mike tubbs wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On June 18, 2004 at 16:18:12, Daniel Jackson wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On June 18, 2004 at 14:35:48, John Merlino wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On June 18, 2004 at 14:31:56, Daniel Jackson wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On June 18, 2004 at 13:25:50, mike tubbs wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The author of this amazing engine in my opinion has created a style very >>>>>>>>>>similar to Mikhail Tal and Garry Kasparov. Has anyone else noticed this? One of >>>>>>>>>>the Signitures of CM6000 style is the pawn sacrifice, which is usually for >>>>>>>>>>active piece play. Many here speak of Rebel and Hiarcs as the most human like >>>>>>>>>>programs, actually i think CM6000 deserves this singular honour. I also like >>>>>>>>>>CM9000 but it plays alot less risky then CM6000 and doesn't sacrifice material >>>>>>>>>>as much. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>You know that Johan de Koning wrote 4000, 5000, 6000, 8000, and 9000, all based >>>>>>>>>on the King program, don't you? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Don't forget 5500, 7000 and the upcoming 10th Edition. :-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>But that doesn't mean that there couldn't have been significant changes in the >>>>>>>>playing style of the engine between versions. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>jm >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Oh I didn't forget, there was a small upgrade between 5000, and 5500. CM7K was >>>>>>>basically 6K with a new interface. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I think Chessmaster/King Program is very tactical, one of the best and the King >>>>>>>of spotting mates, but not the most human of all engines and certainly not Tal.. >>>>>>>it would get into trouble with unsound sacs!;-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Daniel >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I guess it's just a matter of opinion, I think it's better then tal and didn't >>>>>>make the same unsound sacrifices he did, if tal was to play his crap on >>>>>>chessmaster he would have gotten rolled, but i'm sure he is smart enough not to >>>>>>try his crap against it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>His crap?????? You are kidding right? >>>> >>>> It's well known that tal made alot of unsound sacrifices, thus the expression >>>>"his Crap"! >>> >>>Yep, that World Champion Mikhail Tal sure played a lot of crappy moves.... > > I know, but please don't call them crappy. Just say them "not best moves". The >man was a genius and we should have a little more respect on it's moves. > And although sometimes the moves were not the best, most times they were >achieving their goal to make the opponent to get lost into complications and >lose. You know that when one sacrifice is being made and the right move is to >refute it, then it's VERY difficult to find the proper defence. That happened >million times in the games of M.Tal. > >>> >>>jm >> >> >>And Chessmaster would punish them mercilessly. > > The key to human evolution is adaptability. If Tal, Morphy or anyone from the >"olds", played for the first time a couple of games with todays chess engines it >would surely lose, but after more games it would start to realise the machine's >capabilities and would be more careful, so at the end he would be even (equal) >with the machine. Just like super GM's are now. > > And don't believe that CM6000 can ever play like M.Tal. It gives pawns for >having the initiative but it can't create the amazing positions with the amazing >(and wrong sometimes) sacrifices M.Tal did. > > Anyway, as far as i can say, you are right that CM6000 is the most aggressive >from all Chessmaster series except CM5500 (the only CM i don't have). I have >tried many times to create a personality that plays with at least 20% the style >of M.Tal, but i always failed. The method was to play many games with other >engines and find a satisfactory aggressive/sacrificing play. And also i had a >dozen of testpositions with M.Tal moves that they must be played by the >CM-personality. I always started with this nice position: > >White to play Rxg7!! and win. > >[D]r1bq1k1r/1p2b1pp/p4p2/3NQ2B/1P1pP3/8/2PK3P/3R2R1 w - - 0 22 Chessmaster 9000 on a 3.0G P4, using SKR SS=16 sees a nice positive score in 15 seconds then goes on to identify a Mate in 16 in 10 minutes. Nice. Time Depth Score Positions Moves 0:00 1/3 0.64 1914 22.Qxe7+ Qxe7 23.Nxe7 Kxe7 24.Rxg7+ Kd6 25.Rf1 Ke5 0:00 1/4 0.78 5019 22.Qxe7+ Qxe7 23.Nxe7 Kxe7 24.Rxg7+ Kd6 25.Rf1 Ke5 26.Re7+ Kd6 0:00 1/4 0.93 9486 22.Rdf1 Bd6 23.Qg5 Bxb4+ 24.Nxb4 Qe7 0:00 1/5 0.75 38033 22.Rdf1 h6 23.Nxe7 Qxe7 24.Qxe7+ Kxe7 25.Rxg7+ Ke6 26.c3 Ke5 27.cxd4+ Kxd4 28.Rxf6 Kxe4 0:00 1/6 1.02 71703 22.Rdf1 h6 23.Nxe7 Qxe7 24.Qxe7+ Kxe7 25.Rxg7+ Kd6 26.Rxf6+ Ke5 27.Rgf7 Kxe4 0:00 1/7 1.03 191502 22.Rdf1 h6 23.Nxe7 Qxe7 24.Qxe7+ Kxe7 25.Rxg7+ Kd6 26.Rxf6+ Ke5 27.Rgf7 Be6 0:04 1/8 1.12 1272147 22.Rdf1 a5 23.Nxe7 Qxe7 24.Qxe7+ Kxe7 25.Rxg7+ Kd6 26.Rxf6+ Ke5 27.Rff7 h6 28.bxa5 Rxa5 0:11 1/9 1.11 3286046 22.Rdf1 a5 23.Nxe7 Qxe7 24.Qxe7+ Kxe7 25.Rxg7+ Kd6 26.Rxf6+ Ke5 27.Rff7 h6 28.Kd3 axb4 29.Rg6 0:15 1/9 2.57 4638095 22.Rxg7 Kxg7 23.Rg1+ Kh6 24.Qf4+ Kxh5 25.Qf3+ Kh6 26.Qg3 Qxd5 27.exd5 Kh5 28.Qf3+ Kh6 29.Qe4 Kh5 30.Qxe7 Bg4 31.Qxf6 0:21 1/10 2.92 6837823 22.Rxg7 Kxg7 23.Rg1+ Kh6 24.Qf4+ Kxh5 25.Qf3+ Kh6 26.Qg3 Qxd5 27.exd5 Kh5 28.Qf3+ Kh6 29.Qe4 Kh5 30.Qe2+ Kh4 31.Qxe7 Bg4 32.Qxf6+ Kh5 33.Qxd4 0:39 1/11 3.26 13261649 22.Rxg7 Kxg7 23.Rg1+ Kh6 24.Qf4+ Kxh5 25.Qf3+ Kh6 26.Qg3 Qxd5 27.exd5 Kh5 28.Qf3+ Kh6 29.Qe4 Kh5 30.Qxe7 Bf5 31.Qxf6 Bg4 32.Qf7+ Kg5 33.Qxb7 1:40 1/12 9.58 35898401 22.Rxg7 Kxg7 23.Rg1+ Kh6 24.Qf4+ Kxh5 25.Qf3+ Kh6 26.Qg3 Qxd5 27.exd5 Kh5 28.Qf3+ Kh6 29.Qe4 Kh5 30.Qxe7 h6 31.Qf7+ Kh4 32.Qxf6+ Kh5 33.Qg6+ Kh4 34.Qg3+ Kh5 35.Qe5+ Kh4 36.Qxd4+ Kh5 37.Qe5+ 4:30 1/13 13.60 100405693 22.Rxg7 Kxg7 23.Rg1+ Kh6 24.Qf4+ Kxh5 25.Qf3+ Kh6 26.Qg3 Qxd5 27.exd5 Kh5 28.Qf3+ Kh6 29.Qe4 Kh5 30.Qxe7 Bf5 31.Qxf6 Rag8 32.Qxf5+ Kh4 33.Rxg8 Rxg8 34.Qxh7+ Kg4 35.Qxg8+ Kf5 10:03 1/14 Mate16 237112042 22.Rxg7 Kxg7 23.Rg1+ Kh6 24.Qf4+ Kxh5 25.Qf3+ Kh6 26.Qg3 Qxd5 27.exd5 Kh5 28.Qf3+ Kh6 29.Qe4 Kh5 30.Qe2+ Kh4 31.Qxe7 h6 32.Qxf6+ Kh5 33.h4 Rg8 34.Qf7+ Kxh4 35.Qf4+ Kh5 36.Qh2+ Bh3 37.Qxh3# Steve
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