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Subject: Re: Question about comparison pentium4 Xeon2 and opteron

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 08:17:53 06/21/04

Go up one level in this thread


On June 21, 2004 at 10:03:03, Drexel,Michael wrote:

>On June 21, 2004 at 08:54:01, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On June 21, 2004 at 06:43:00, Joachim Rang wrote:
>>
>>>On June 21, 2004 at 06:14:58, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 21, 2004 at 05:51:40, Joachim Rang wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On June 21, 2004 at 05:24:33, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I talk with a person and he tells me that Xeon2 is new technology and it is
>>>>>>better than opteron but it simply does not fit the price that I agree to pay for
>>>>>>it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>He tells me that there are graphs that tell that Xeon2 is better.
>>>>>>When I tell him that people in this forum told me that pentium4 is relatively
>>>>>>bad he tells me that he does not trust them(note that he does not deal with
>>>>>>chess programs).
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>that's the point. Xeons are fine for certain applications and in generally I
>>>>>would say not worse than Opterons (but not better neither and much more
>>>>>expansive).
>>>>>
>>>>>For certain applications Xeons will outperform Opterons significantly and for
>>>>>others (such as chess programs) Opterons will outperform Xeons significantly.
>>>>>That is what all people in that board are telling you, so no need to ask other
>>>>>people who know nothing about chess performance.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>He also claims that the Athlon64 is the same quality as the pentium4 that I can
>>>>>>get.
>>>>>>He agrees that the opteron is better than normal pentium4 that I can get.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>this is all wrong. You can't no more make such general statements, since the
>>>>>performance for different purposes very widely. In general the P4 has also its
>>>>>merits and performs in some multimedia applciation very well, but for chess...
>>>>>
>>>>>>I am interested to know if there is some graph that shows that the opteron and
>>>>>>even the athlon64 is better than the xeon2.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>look at the benchmarks given in this board and here:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.beepworld.de/members39/computerschach2/chessmarks.htm
>>>>
>>>>As far as I can see the leader is xeon and not athlon and the xeon is more than
>>>>twice faster in nps than second place so the reason is not having 2 processors
>>>>against one.
>>>
>>>
>>>This is misleading: the 1st entry is with two processors and HT enabled so
>>>apparently using 4 processors. Fritz than pushes the nps in the sky but that
>>>does not mean that it reaches greater depth (probably the contrary is true).
>>>
>>>DualXeon 3,565    2953 kn/s    Jens H. (Deep Fritz8, 2 CPU)
>>>
>>>The "realistic" value is the 4th one:
>>>
>>>DualXeon 3,565    1326 kn/s    Jens H. (Fritz8; 1 CPU)
>>>
>>>And that is an overclocked Xeon, so a standard Xeon @ 3.2 GHz would give 1190
>>>knps. Compare that to 1405 with AMD 64 @ 2.2 GHz!
>>>
>>>HT is not helping chess programs as Bob pointed out here some time ago. It can
>>>increase the nps but it won't increase time to solution, since the faster nps
>>>are elliminated by more SMP-Overhead (in fact time-to-solution may be even
>>>worse).
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Note that I probably decided to go for the opteron and not for the athlon
>>>>>>because people tell me that I cannot get responsibility for the athlon64 and are
>>>>>>against it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>What does that mean? The guarantee is the same, why you can't get responsibility
>>>>>for an AMD 64?
>>>>
>>>>I do not know.
>>>>
>>>>People tell me that I can get responsibility only for parts and not for all the
>>>>computer but I agree that if I go for opteron248 not from IBM there is the same
>>>>problem.
>>>>
>>>>I still did not buy opteron with the same speed with responsibility only for the
>>>>parts.
>>>>
>>>>It probably can cost me near 2000$ instead of total price near 5000$ that was
>>>>for opteron directly from IBM(I still do not know the total price and people try
>>>>to get details for me).
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>
>>>If you buy a complete system (even an assembled one according to your wishes)
>>>you have guarantee and responsibility for the whole system according to the laws
>>>in your country. IBM may extend the respnsibility in duration and service
>>>quality, but every complete system you are buying should come with
>>>responsibility.
>>>
>>>regards Joachim
>>
>>I see that they need special invitation for opteron248 and I will probably go
>>for something else.
>>
>>Here are the options that I probably have.
>>
>>The price is probably at least higher by 1000$ than the price of the processor.
>>
>>
>>1)Athlon Xp 3200 (near 430$ for the processor)
>>2)Athlon Xp 3400 (near 610$ for the processor)$  10 days from today
>>monday next week he expect to get processor and he need to build it.
>>3)Athlon Fx  1000$ for processor estimated 2-3 weeks from today.
>>people tell me that FX is better for working 24 hours.
>>They do not need to do special invitation but
>>4)Opteron240(from IBM maybe it is here and in this case I can get it tomorrow)
>>5)Opteron248 1300$ for proccesor estimated time 3-4 weeks and needed special
>>invitation.
>
>Opteron 240 is 1.4 Ghz server processor. That's not an option.
>XP 3400 does not exist.
>
>Here is the official AMD pricelist(for 1000 units):
>
>http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_609,00.html
>
>The opteron248 is 690$ and the FX-53 799$.
>So ask your vendor why he charge such a high price for the opteron248 compared
>to the FX-53.
>That's a rip-off.
>
>Michael

Thanks for the information and the link.

Note that I do not negotiate about buying computer and let another person to do
it for me(I prefer to spend more time about trying to improve movei) so I will
show him the link tommorow.

Uri



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