Author: Uri Blass
Date: 08:17:53 06/21/04
Go up one level in this thread
On June 21, 2004 at 10:03:03, Drexel,Michael wrote: >On June 21, 2004 at 08:54:01, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On June 21, 2004 at 06:43:00, Joachim Rang wrote: >> >>>On June 21, 2004 at 06:14:58, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On June 21, 2004 at 05:51:40, Joachim Rang wrote: >>>> >>>>>On June 21, 2004 at 05:24:33, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>I talk with a person and he tells me that Xeon2 is new technology and it is >>>>>>better than opteron but it simply does not fit the price that I agree to pay for >>>>>>it. >>>>>> >>>>>>He tells me that there are graphs that tell that Xeon2 is better. >>>>>>When I tell him that people in this forum told me that pentium4 is relatively >>>>>>bad he tells me that he does not trust them(note that he does not deal with >>>>>>chess programs). >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>that's the point. Xeons are fine for certain applications and in generally I >>>>>would say not worse than Opterons (but not better neither and much more >>>>>expansive). >>>>> >>>>>For certain applications Xeons will outperform Opterons significantly and for >>>>>others (such as chess programs) Opterons will outperform Xeons significantly. >>>>>That is what all people in that board are telling you, so no need to ask other >>>>>people who know nothing about chess performance. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>He also claims that the Athlon64 is the same quality as the pentium4 that I can >>>>>>get. >>>>>>He agrees that the opteron is better than normal pentium4 that I can get. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>this is all wrong. You can't no more make such general statements, since the >>>>>performance for different purposes very widely. In general the P4 has also its >>>>>merits and performs in some multimedia applciation very well, but for chess... >>>>> >>>>>>I am interested to know if there is some graph that shows that the opteron and >>>>>>even the athlon64 is better than the xeon2. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>look at the benchmarks given in this board and here: >>>>> >>>>>http://www.beepworld.de/members39/computerschach2/chessmarks.htm >>>> >>>>As far as I can see the leader is xeon and not athlon and the xeon is more than >>>>twice faster in nps than second place so the reason is not having 2 processors >>>>against one. >>> >>> >>>This is misleading: the 1st entry is with two processors and HT enabled so >>>apparently using 4 processors. Fritz than pushes the nps in the sky but that >>>does not mean that it reaches greater depth (probably the contrary is true). >>> >>>DualXeon 3,565 2953 kn/s Jens H. (Deep Fritz8, 2 CPU) >>> >>>The "realistic" value is the 4th one: >>> >>>DualXeon 3,565 1326 kn/s Jens H. (Fritz8; 1 CPU) >>> >>>And that is an overclocked Xeon, so a standard Xeon @ 3.2 GHz would give 1190 >>>knps. Compare that to 1405 with AMD 64 @ 2.2 GHz! >>> >>>HT is not helping chess programs as Bob pointed out here some time ago. It can >>>increase the nps but it won't increase time to solution, since the faster nps >>>are elliminated by more SMP-Overhead (in fact time-to-solution may be even >>>worse). >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Note that I probably decided to go for the opteron and not for the athlon >>>>>>because people tell me that I cannot get responsibility for the athlon64 and are >>>>>>against it. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>What does that mean? The guarantee is the same, why you can't get responsibility >>>>>for an AMD 64? >>>> >>>>I do not know. >>>> >>>>People tell me that I can get responsibility only for parts and not for all the >>>>computer but I agree that if I go for opteron248 not from IBM there is the same >>>>problem. >>>> >>>>I still did not buy opteron with the same speed with responsibility only for the >>>>parts. >>>> >>>>It probably can cost me near 2000$ instead of total price near 5000$ that was >>>>for opteron directly from IBM(I still do not know the total price and people try >>>>to get details for me). >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>> >>>If you buy a complete system (even an assembled one according to your wishes) >>>you have guarantee and responsibility for the whole system according to the laws >>>in your country. IBM may extend the respnsibility in duration and service >>>quality, but every complete system you are buying should come with >>>responsibility. >>> >>>regards Joachim >> >>I see that they need special invitation for opteron248 and I will probably go >>for something else. >> >>Here are the options that I probably have. >> >>The price is probably at least higher by 1000$ than the price of the processor. >> >> >>1)Athlon Xp 3200 (near 430$ for the processor) >>2)Athlon Xp 3400 (near 610$ for the processor)$ 10 days from today >>monday next week he expect to get processor and he need to build it. >>3)Athlon Fx 1000$ for processor estimated 2-3 weeks from today. >>people tell me that FX is better for working 24 hours. >>They do not need to do special invitation but >>4)Opteron240(from IBM maybe it is here and in this case I can get it tomorrow) >>5)Opteron248 1300$ for proccesor estimated time 3-4 weeks and needed special >>invitation. > >Opteron 240 is 1.4 Ghz server processor. That's not an option. >XP 3400 does not exist. > >Here is the official AMD pricelist(for 1000 units): > >http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_609,00.html > >The opteron248 is 690$ and the FX-53 799$. >So ask your vendor why he charge such a high price for the opteron248 compared >to the FX-53. >That's a rip-off. > >Michael Thanks for the information and the link. Note that I do not negotiate about buying computer and let another person to do it for me(I prefer to spend more time about trying to improve movei) so I will show him the link tommorow. Uri
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