Author: Djordje Vidanovic
Date: 01:21:14 06/30/04
Go up one level in this thread
On June 29, 2004 at 18:06:27, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >On June 29, 2004 at 17:57:07, Djordje Vidanovic wrote: > >>On June 29, 2004 at 15:50:00, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >> >>>On June 29, 2004 at 12:48:06, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On June 29, 2004 at 12:28:03, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>> >>>>>On June 29, 2004 at 11:56:05, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On June 29, 2004 at 11:25:08, Jaime Benito de Valle Ruiz wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On June 29, 2004 at 08:26:15, Zach Wegner wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>One important point is that crafty uses bitboards, so it will have an additional >>>>>>>>speedup on a 64 bit processor. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I might be wrong, but I think that Fritz also uses bitboards (I don't know about >>>>>>>Shredder). >>>>>>>Anyway, what about the compiler? And what extra efficiency do you expect from a >>>>>>>64-bit processor? Enough to outsearch all other engines running on similar >>>>>>>processors? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Jaime >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>AMD has tested Crafty to answer this question. They compiled it for 32 bits, >>>>>>and for 64 bits. The 64 bit version runs 47% faster than the 32 bit version, >>>>>>everything else remaining constant. >>>>> >>>>>Going from 32 to 64 bits also the number of registers moves up from 8 to 16 >>>>>which is a big speedup also for Crafty and is inside that 47%. >>>> >>>> >>>>Does not change their statement or measurement... >>>> >>>>And the question will be whether or not the commercial guys use a beta compiler >>>>to produce accesses to those extra registers. If, as you always claim, fritz is >>>>in ASM (rather than what Frans claims, that it was rewritten into pure C a >>>>couple of years back) then it won't be able to touch those registers either... >>> >>>Fritz will be opteron assembly, read my lips... >>> >>>Please show me a statement from Frans where he quotes it is written entirely in >>>C. I cannot remember that at all. They (reporters) just ask whether 'fritz' is >>>written in C. The answer is probably 'yes' to that (interface). >>> >>>>Time will tell... >>>>>>Fritz does not use bitboards by the way... >> >> >> >>Fritz will hit 25 million kn/s, reaching ply 17-18 in the middlegame... :-) And >>it will be Opteron ASM, by the way :-) > >I'm not so sure about speed. Commercially they will say it's C++ when that is in >their interest to say, they will say it's C when that's in their interest and it >will be assembly when it is in their interest to say so. > >But the *engine* is in assembly, let's be clear there. > >I would expect about 15 million nps, except that last years Frans has put more >knowledge into evaluation. I remember he said already around 1999 he had an >evaluation exactly 2 times bigger than crafty, so i guess that'll be at least 4 >times bigger by now. > >That will slow it down. > >Also it's doing seemingly checks in qsearch which slows it down. > >I expect somewhere around 9-10 million nps or so. That's about 1000 cycles a >node. Well, I said that "Fritz will hit..." not "Fritz will be hitting...", meaning that it _will_ occasionally hit 25 mil kn/s, even in the middlegame. Generally speaking, I'd go along with the 10 mil nodes per second estimate, and, of course, I agree that it will run in ASM. The knowledge will slow it down a little, but not much. Frans Morsch has always been known for _maximal_ optimisation and efficiency.
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