Author: Anthony Cozzie
Date: 06:13:34 06/30/04
Go up one level in this thread
On June 29, 2004 at 18:11:21, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On June 29, 2004 at 18:06:27, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>On June 29, 2004 at 17:57:07, Djordje Vidanovic wrote: >> >>>On June 29, 2004 at 15:50:00, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>> >>>>On June 29, 2004 at 12:48:06, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On June 29, 2004 at 12:28:03, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On June 29, 2004 at 11:56:05, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On June 29, 2004 at 11:25:08, Jaime Benito de Valle Ruiz wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On June 29, 2004 at 08:26:15, Zach Wegner wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>One important point is that crafty uses bitboards, so it will have an additional >>>>>>>>>speedup on a 64 bit processor. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I might be wrong, but I think that Fritz also uses bitboards (I don't know about >>>>>>>>Shredder). >>>>>>>>Anyway, what about the compiler? And what extra efficiency do you expect from a >>>>>>>>64-bit processor? Enough to outsearch all other engines running on similar >>>>>>>>processors? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Jaime >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>AMD has tested Crafty to answer this question. They compiled it for 32 bits, >>>>>>>and for 64 bits. The 64 bit version runs 47% faster than the 32 bit version, >>>>>>>everything else remaining constant. >>>>>> >>>>>>Going from 32 to 64 bits also the number of registers moves up from 8 to 16 >>>>>>which is a big speedup also for Crafty and is inside that 47%. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Does not change their statement or measurement... >>>>> >>>>>And the question will be whether or not the commercial guys use a beta compiler >>>>>to produce accesses to those extra registers. If, as you always claim, fritz is >>>>>in ASM (rather than what Frans claims, that it was rewritten into pure C a >>>>>couple of years back) then it won't be able to touch those registers either... >>>> >>>>Fritz will be opteron assembly, read my lips... >>>> >>>>Please show me a statement from Frans where he quotes it is written entirely in >>>>C. I cannot remember that at all. They (reporters) just ask whether 'fritz' is >>>>written in C. The answer is probably 'yes' to that (interface). >>>> >>>>>Time will tell... >>>>>>>Fritz does not use bitboards by the way... >>> >>> >>> >>>Fritz will hit 25 million kn/s, reaching ply 17-18 in the middlegame... :-) And >>>it will be Opteron ASM, by the way :-) >> >>I'm not so sure about speed. Commercially they will say it's C++ when that is in >>their interest to say, they will say it's C when that's in their interest and it >>will be assembly when it is in their interest to say so. >> >>But the *engine* is in assembly, let's be clear there. >> >>I would expect about 15 million nps, except that last years Frans has put more >>knowledge into evaluation. I remember he said already around 1999 he had an >>evaluation exactly 2 times bigger than crafty, so i guess that'll be at least 4 >>times bigger by now. > >2x bigger doesn't mean much when comparing bitboard to non-bitboard. > >Not that I believe any of that anyway. > >At the moment, recent benchmarks suggest Crafty is significantly faster than >Fritz on equal hardware which suggests that he is doing something different than >in the past, as 3 years ago he was 2x-3x faster than me in raw NPS. > >But it doesn't matter. We play what we have, and see what happens... > > >> >>That will slow it down. >> >>Also it's doing seemingly checks in qsearch which slows it down. >> >>I expect somewhere around 9-10 million nps or so. That's about 1000 cycles a >>node. > >That is dead on my quad 2.4ghz opteron speed. I bet fritz is closer to 6M based >on recent speed reports here... From http://www.beepworld.de/members39/computerschach2/chessmarks.htm: Athlon64 2.2 3400 1405 kn/s Gian-Carlo Pascutto Ahtlon64 3000+ 1195 KN/s Joachim Rang (2 Ghz, 512 Kb Cache) This means that 1 processor 32-bit Fritz should get about 1250 KN/s. Assuming perfect nps scaling gives 5M nps. However, I'm sure Frans has been busy rewriting to AMD64 assembly; the big question is how much that gives him. anthony
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