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Subject: Re: Q. Aspiration, PVS, Fail-Soft

Author: Volker Böhm

Date: 09:07:42 07/02/04

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On July 02, 2004 at 09:21:41, Fabien Letouzey wrote:

>> Hi all,
>
>> This is my first post to this forum [I have been reading it for some time]
>
>> Some questions in arbitrary order:
>
>> 1. should PVS kick in after 1st move, or after PV found as Bruce suggests on his
>> page? [I *think* tree is smaller Bruce's way]
>
>It is the first time I have a look at Bruce's example.
>
>In classical PVS/NegaScout, use the scout search after the first move.
>The assumption is that the first move is likely to be the best one.
>This applies even if the score is below alpha.
>
>Bruce makes a slightly different assumption that depends on the
>window.  IMO it is an uncommon implementation but it might be better
>depending on aspiration windows.

What does Bruce suggest? Btw. who is Bruce, Bruce Moreland?

>
>I suggest you start with the classical way.
>
>> 2. if using fail soft, which is right: pvs(-best-1, best)  or  pvs(-alpha-1,
>> alpha) ?
>
>Note that you forgot the minus signs for both second arguments, the
>windows should be "minimal" (beta = alpha+1).  Anyway, only testing
>against alpha is correct.  Otherwise, you might end up using an even
>larger window than plain alpha-beta during the re-search.
>
>> 3. depending on 2., how do you test for failure, and what bounds to use for
>> research? best or alpha
>
>After a minimal-window search like "v = search(x,x+1);", a fail low
>is characterised by "v <= x" and a fail high by "v > x".  Just be
>consistent between the search call and the subsequent test.
>
>Usually after a standard NegaMax "v = -search(-alpha-1,-alpha);", one
>tests for a fail high with "v > alpha" (the two minus signs cancel out).
>
>> 4. Fruit uses 'mate distance prunning'  - I read in the archive [now down],
>> where some suggest using shallower mate score hash entries, and others suggest
>> boosting the 'draft' of mate scores [which is similar, I suppose]
>> Are these all different versions of the same thing? - any help?
>
>The last two sound like the same.  A trap to avoid: an "exact" score
>of "mate in 4" at depth 5 might become "mate in 3" at depth 7.  So
>when you "boost" the draft, make the score a bound.
>
>The "mate-distance pruning" I use is common, but I don't know a
>standard name for it.  It is a completely different idea, that is
>actually independent of the transposition table.  If at a given node
>you already have a "mate in 3" (= 5 plies) then only a "mate in 2" (=
>3 plies) or shorter could improve the current value.  Therefore there
>is no need to look more than 3 plies ahead in any subtree.  You might
>need to adjust depending on how you detect mates.  Also most engines
>count mate distances "to the root", so implementation requires care.
>
>> Thanks for *ALL* your help: past, present, and future;
>
>Just help back when your turn comes.
>
>> David
>
>Fabien.



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