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Subject: Re: Can someone post positions that programs do mistakes in french or...

Author: blass uri

Date: 13:49:00 12/23/98

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On December 23, 1998 at 08:32:39, Harald Faber wrote:

>On December 23, 1998 at 08:23:33, Nouveau wrote:
>
>>>>difference), so why not trying another type of tournament ?
>>>>
>>>>Chess programs have different styles : they don't treat positions the same way,
>>>>they don't "understand" chess the same way, so why not thematic tournaments ?
>>>>
>>>>For example, how do they deal with the Ruy Lopez ? Which one is the best
>>>>Scottish player ? Which one defends best against the King's gambit ?
>>>>
>>>>I'm sure we could have interesting results. The point is not to have another war
>>>>about strength, but to have a better idea of the way computer chess programs
>>>>deal with different type of positions : it is a very rare subject here.
>>>
>>>This reminds me on the Nunn test which indeed is a thematic test. 10 (equal)
>>>opening positions are taken out of the opening theory.
>>>Indeed some try to test strength with this test...
>>
>>I understand the Nunn test as a "engine without opening library" test : it's a
>>try to compare relative strength of engines. I think it's a good point to
>>evaluate "pure" strength.
>>
>>That's not the direction I thought. The idea is to look at the way programs deal
>>with different openings : some are complex, others positional or strategic, and,
>>for the games I looked at, different programs have completly different evals for
>>these positions.
>
>The Nunn test has different openings. Could you specify your idea where the
>difference is?
>
>>Besides it would be interesting, for me (am I alone in the case ?) to know which
>>programs play better (understand better ?) the King's gambit, the Schliemann
>>gambit of the Ruy Lopez or the Fajarowicz gambit. Other may be interested in the
>>Sicilian Dragon or the Giucco Piano. I'm sure we would find great difference
>>between programs of a generally same strength.
>
>I am sure but that is what opening book responsibles for commercial chess progs
>do. They try to find out which openings are bad and which are good for the
>program.
>
>>I read once (was it you ?) that the French is a bad opening choice for computers
>>maybe could we find one that has better results than others with this defense
>>?
>
>Such a difference will always be found in each opening. But I think French and
>Kings Indian are 2 openings that won't be played well at least for the next 5
>years.

can you post some positions in french or Kings indian when you find that
programs do mistakes?

I am more optimistic then you about the next 5 years
maybe there is even now a program that can play well these positions.

I assume that you did not test all the programs so it is interesting to discuss
about these positions.

Uri



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