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Subject: Re: Features: Return vs. Effort (new revised table)

Author: Tord Romstad

Date: 04:51:09 07/07/04

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On July 07, 2004 at 07:35:01, Tony Werten wrote:

>On July 07, 2004 at 05:49:44, Tord Romstad wrote:
>
>>On July 07, 2004 at 05:43:49, Tony Werten wrote:
>>
>>>On July 07, 2004 at 05:22:22, Tord Romstad wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 07, 2004 at 02:26:30, Tony Werten wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>5          3         .6              mate-at-a-glance
>>>>>
>>>>>From my experience, the effort is higher, since it's a very dangerous piece of
>>>>>code. Specially since other wrong scoring seems to get damped by alpha beta, but
>>>>>a wrong score by a maag is deadly.
>>>>
>>>>This depends on how you use it.  When I used static mate detection, I didn't
>>>>return a mate score, but just used the information for move ordering.  The
>>>>mating
>>>>move was searched first.  This works very well, even if the mate detection is
>>>>correct only 99% of the time.
>>>
>>>Yes, but that's not a mate at a glance but a move ordering trick.
>>
>>Technically speaking you are right, but the effect is exactly the same
>>as a "mate at a glance".
>>
>>>Less effort but also less result.
>>
>>I agree about less effort, but less result?  The only disadvantage of
>>using the static mate threat detection only for move ordering is that
>>you have to do an extra makemove/unmakemove before returning a mate
>>score.  Not an expense worth mentioning ...
>
>I understand the difference. A mate at a glance should go further than a mate in
>1.

Yes, if you want to detect mate in several moves, the difference in efficiency
increases a bit.

>Mate in 1 is easy, specially if you have attacktables.

Attack tables make it easier, but it is still by no means trivial.  One
problem is "X-ray defences" through the attacking pieces.  My attack
tables don't contain this kind of information.

>eg you give a check at the back rank, your opponent can put various pieces
>between your checking piece and his king, but they are all undefended and can be
>captured, so the maag returns checkmate in 3.

No, it is much more complicated than that.  Consider the following position:

[D]7k/R4rpp/4r3/8/8/1b6/8/7K w - -

Unless you have some very sophisticated attack tables, you cannot easily
see that white has no forced mate.

>If this happens in quiescence,
>it's not sure your normal search would find it as well, even if you do some
>plies of checking moves in qsearch.

One of the criterions for when to search checks in the qsearch should of
course be the presence of a likely mate threat.

Tord



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