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Subject: Re: ICGA and the webcasting of WCCC_2004

Author: Andrew Wagner

Date: 10:33:08 07/08/04

Go up one level in this thread


On July 07, 2004 at 23:18:19, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On July 07, 2004 at 22:35:34, Andrew Wagner wrote:
>
>>On July 07, 2004 at 22:22:20, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On July 07, 2004 at 22:04:41, Andrew Wagner wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 07, 2004 at 21:57:14, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 07, 2004 at 19:27:13, GuyHaworth wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There is clearly a lot of interest on this bulletin board in the ICGA WCCC 2004
>>>>>>event in Israel.  It is clearly repaying us with some interesting games,
>>>>>>incidents and a close contest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Like G-CP and others who would very much like to be there in person, I regret
>>>>>>that I have not been able to attend, and have offered my apologies to Omid and
>>>>>>colleagues who are doing a first class job with the organisation there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[ In my case, I would not have been able to attend anytime in the last 10 weeks
>>>>>>if the event had been anywhere but my home town, but that's life. ]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I am happy to receive suggestions for the requirements of an ICGA infrastructure
>>>>>>to support ICGA events, and also happy to hear of good examples of such
>>>>>>infrastructure, technologies involved, and expertise willing to be involved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I say this not only with my ICGA V-P hat on, but as a Univ lecturer happy to
>>>>>>engage suitable CS students in suitable, interesting projects which are required
>>>>>>to solve 'real problems' for 'real customers' by the authenticating body (the
>>>>>>BCS) in the UK.  Email is more convenient for me than CCC but I don't wish to
>>>>>>stifle discussion on CCC if that is preferred.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>This is easy.
>>>>>
>>>>>1.  Set up a LAN at the tournament site, with a local machine running a FICS
>>>>>server.
>>>>>
>>>>>2.  Require _all_ entrants to be FICS compatible, so that moves are
>>>>>automatically sent between programs with no human intervention, pairing is done
>>>>>electronically and games started automatically, clocks managed by the FICS
>>>>>server, games recorded by the FICS server, tournament crosstable provided by the
>>>>>tournament manager software on the same server, etc...
>>>>>
>>>>>3.  No exceptions allowed.  See note 2 above.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>For the record, I don't think there is any currently available version of the
>>>>FICS software which is that sophisticated. Heck, even ICC doesn't start the
>>>>games automatically. My guess would be that this entire server program would
>>>>have to be written from scratch. No small project, but certainly worthwhile.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Have you played in an ICC tourney lately?  IE the "pear" manager does it _all_.
>>>Does the pairings.  starts the games.  Collects the results.  Etc.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Umm, Bob? Did you forget who you're talking to? I _run_ tournaments on pear.
>
>My error.  I was thinking of "mamer" although I think there is another one that
>can auto-start games...
>
>
>>First off, it doesn't start the games automatically, it requires at the least a
>>command from one of the two operators. It also doesn't automatically collect
>>PGN, for example. Not to mention, the ICC software is far more advanced than
>>FICS (though I don't know specifically much about FICS tournaments), and is not
>>open source.
>
>ICC collects the PGN just fine.  Pear and others report standings, crosstables,
>etc as the games are finished...
>
>

ICC collects the PGN, but pear doesn't. In other words, there's no way to say
"give me all the PGN scores from such-and-such a tournament". Anyway, the real
point here is that what you're suggesting isn't a simple process of loading an
existing server program onto a box and letting it rip. There's quite a bit of
work involved.

>
>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>However, you will note that Chessbase are included in WCCC2004's sponsors, and
>>>>>>are indeed webcasting the event with Boris' commentaries.  Chessbase offered to
>>>>>>support the ICGA with their technology at Maastricht in 2002 and that offer was
>>>>>>welcomed by the Association.  We are very grateful for Chessbase's continued
>>>>>>interest in the ICGA WCCC and their commitment to webcasting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Fine.  It is a proprietary interface, with a proprietary protocol.  Let 'em
>>>>>webcast all they want, but do the main event in a publicly available protocol to
>>>>>prevent one company from "taking over".  At ICC, we have had thousands of people
>>>>>looking at games at one time, such as the Deep Blue vs Kasparov match.  ICGA
>>>>>events can't even be seen publicly unless you only run windows and download a
>>>>>(what is now free but might not always be since it is commercial) interface for
>>>>>that proprietary protocol.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Finally, I thank Omid again for performing his many roles in parallel with
>>>>>>exercising FALCON very creditably in the event.  He has the support of the ICGA
>>>>>>personnel there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Guy Haworth
>>>>>>VP, ICGA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Fix the black hole.  Nothing is getting out in a timely manner except for
>>>>>participants logging in to CCC as they have time.  That is almost criminal
>>>>>behavior for the "International COMPUTER games association" to not make the
>>>>>event available to a COMPUTER network...
>>>>>
>>>>>It just defies all logic.  IBM did it for the DB match, in a way that _anybody_
>>>>>could watch, unix or not.  Why can't the ICGA do the same?  Why hasn't it _done_
>>>>>it already.  It's not like this is a new and novel idea...



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