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Subject: Re: Is Movei even a Master?

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 02:52:20 07/10/04

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On July 09, 2004 at 20:47:34, Dann Corbit wrote:

>On July 09, 2004 at 19:10:43, mike tubbs wrote:
>
>>This program seems to be everyone's punching bag, i wonder if it is even
>>2200elo?
>
>It is about as strong as Yace and Thinker, in one test that I ran.  Uri has had
>some hardware problems.  In a handful of games, anything can happen.
>
>   Program          Elo    +   -   Games   Score   Av.Op.  Draws
> 1 Ruffian_210    : 2709  112 164    24    79.2 %   2477   25.0 %
> 2 Crafty-1914    : 2626  122 159    25    68.0 %   2495   16.0 %
> 3 DeepSjeng      : 2614  124 163    25    66.0 %   2499   12.0 %
> 4 List512        : 2614  124 163    25    66.0 %   2499   12.0 %
> 5 Delfi          : 2582  130 124    25    62.0 %   2497   28.0 %
> 6 Aristarch 4.50 : 2575  130 124    25    62.0 %   2490   28.0 %
> 7 Smarthink-017a : 2570  136 122    24    60.4 %   2497   29.2 %
> 8 Thinker        : 2556  139 113    24    58.3 %   2497   33.3 %
> 9 Moveinow       : 2522  143 126    25    54.0 %   2494   20.0 %
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>This should be very similar to the version he is running at WCCC
>
>10 Rebel12_CB     : 2481  109 146    24    45.8 %   2510   33.3 %
>11 Yace           : 2475  109 146    24    45.8 %   2504   33.3 %
>12 Ufim500        : 2439  113 139    24    41.7 %   2497   33.3 %
>13 Movei 8.174    : 2437  115 133    25    40.0 %   2508   32.0 %
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>This is his old version that you can download, about 85 Elo below the current.
>
>14 Gothmog_10-b7  : 2426  102 133    25    40.0 %   2497   40.0 %
>15 ELChinito 3.25 : 2425  124 130    25    38.0 %   2510   28.0 %
>16 Jonny 2.62     : 2403  150 127    25    36.0 %   2503   16.0 %
>17 Fruit-1_5-intel: 2374  178 122    25    32.0 %   2505    8.0 %
>18 Tcb0050-win32  : 2349  147 121    24    29.2 %   2504   25.0 %
>19 Patzer_361     : 2324  143 114    25    26.0 %   2506   28.0 %
>
>Of course, I suspect that you don't have much interest in data.

I think that it is weaker than it mainly because of the following problems:

1)I believe that you tested with ponder off and it has a bug in pondering(not
bug that cause it to lose on time but bug that can cause it to use a long time
of more than 30 minutes for one move even in 2 hours per game.

In the first game against Sos it used more than 30 minutes for the 7th move.

Peter berger already reported about this bug but the good results in Leo's
tournament were misleading me to believe that there is no problem in pondering
and trying to finish the iteration is the right thing(I still believe it but the
problem is slightly different and I will describe it later).

I usually test with ponder off and I tested with ponder on only to see that
there are no crashes.

It seems that the problem is not very important for playing strength after
seeing movei's results in Leo's tournament.

The problem happens only when movei predict the correct move and changed its
mind during pondering in the last iteration or failed low or failed high in the
last iteration.


Descreption of the problem:

When Movei ponder the correct move it played immediately in case that it
pondered enough time and did not failed high or fail low in the last iteration.

In case of fail high or fail low it tries to finish the iteration.

The problem is not with finishing the iteration but that it may decide that it
needs to do another iteration.

The reason for this problem is that there is varaible that is called
ponder_enough that was supposed to get 1 after pondering enough time but it
never gets the value 1.

When it get the value 0 movei may play immediatly in case of using enough time
but after fail low or fail high it is changed to -1 and later back to 0 so it
does another iteration and that iteration is the last iteration because now it
is in playing mode and decide that this iteration is the last iteration.

I guess that better time management with ponder on can give it something like 20
elo.

After all using more time may help and even if it does not help it still can use
the opponent time and usually the opponent has not more than twice the time that
movei has so the problem is not equivalent to being 2 times slower that is about
being 50 elo weaker in long time control(having 1/2 of the time
of the opponent is still better than being twice slower because the side with
1/2 of the time can use the opponent time).

I simply saw that movei's time management was strange in WCCC from the first
round.

I cared about other problems for the second game like telling movei to believe
that it really has less time then it really has and also mislocated my leg so I
had not a lot of time near the computer to try to solve the problem after the
second round.

Now hopefully the situation of my leg is better(still not 100% ok) and hopefully
I fixed the problem.

Uri



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