Author: Rolf Tueschen
Date: 07:51:51 07/13/04
Go up one level in this thread
On July 13, 2004 at 10:19:56, Joachim Rang wrote: >On July 13, 2004 at 08:37:49, Rolf Tueschen wrote: > >>On July 13, 2004 at 08:08:59, Joachim Rang wrote: >> >>>On July 13, 2004 at 07:18:20, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On July 13, 2004 at 06:12:47, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >>>> >>>>>On July 13, 2004 at 04:12:12, CLiebert wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On July 12, 2004 at 20:47:57, Eduard Nemeth wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On July 12, 2004 at 15:52:37, Andreas Schwartmann wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On July 12, 2004 at 10:32:36, Eduard Nemeth wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Yes, and... German: und Fritz benötigt einfach bessere Tester, dann kann er es >>>>>>>>>wieder schaffen!! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Aber bitte nicht Dich. Gott bewahre! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>a) Bitte nicht persönlich hier werden, sonst habe auch ich etwas in der Tasche >>>>>>>was ich über dich erzählen könnte! >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Andreas hat doch gar nichts über Dich erzählt, siehst Du Gespenster? Was soll >>>>>>diese Drohung die unterschwellig unterstellt das Andi Leichen im Keller hätte >>>>>>(von denen DU weißt?!). Absurd. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>b)Warum "Gott bewahre"? Es könnte eigentlich NUR besser werden ! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Nur besser? Fritz ist das weltweit meistverkaufte Schachprogramm (neben CM?) und >>>>>>Du sagst es kann nur besser werden?! Absurd. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>Andreas >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ******************* >>>>> >>>>>Just to make clear to the English speaking members in CCC what is spoken in >>>>>German. >>>>> >>>>>Eduard Nemeth was the topic in several threads in CCC and it always went about >>>>>his extremely successful play against our top computerchess programs. Eduard >>>>>just has or had Elo of 2150 (maximum) but his chess knowledge is good enough - >>>>>and this is now the new discovery, although real experts knew it since long - >>>>>that Eduard can't win real matches against top progs BUT if he has discovered a >>>>>mistake in the books, or a "bug" in a typically wrong opening reaction then he >>>>>can win _games_ with long-time known s acrifices or typical variations. Since >>>>>Eduard makes these games public the programmers weren't lazy and prevented >>>>>especially these typical Eduard exploitations. - >>>>> >>>>>To the honor of Eduard I must add, that he's no way reducable on these "games". >>>>>Eduard has created several endgame positions - often for FRITZ - where he could >>>>>show that a veritable bug in the engine (book plays no role here at all) led to >>>>>a ridiculous behaviour! Because of the creation and publication of such >>>>>positions - now hold yourself safe on a chair - Eduard wasn't proclaimed >>>>>'smartest' and most creative tester or such something but he was banned from >>>>>German newsgroups to protect the good name of FRITZ. To make this quite clear. >>>>>The failures of their program FRITZ brought a company into opposition to a >>>>>tester who should normally be proclaimed 'best tester of FRITZ' because he could >>>>>show weaknesses or bugs that simply looked really odd. >>>>> >>>>> ++++++++++++ >>>> >>>>I do not know the reason that Eduard was banned but I find it hard to believe >>>>that he was banned for the fact that he detected bugs in Fritz. >>>> >>>>I also find it hard to believe that he was banned for the fact that he told the >>>>world(and not only to chessbase) about the weaknesses that he found but this >>>>explanation is more logical. >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>> >>>You should know that Rolf Tueschen has his own (uncommon) view on reality and >>>that in fact most people would not share his view that Eduard was banned because >>>he pointed out weaknesses in Fritz. In fact it was due to his lack of tolerable >>>behaviour in a specific board (computerschach.de/forum). >>> >>>regards Joachim >> >> >>If you knew that your assumptions about reality are also but views you would >>laugh about yourself and you would be ashamed that you again defamate Eduard. >>Since when are human weaknesses intolerable, and above all in a chess community? >>Have you something learned apart from chess? About Human Charity? I doubt it. > > >I think I know a bit about human charity: >http://www.iwanuschka.de/mitglieder.htm ;-) > >I have nothing to do with Chessbase and have in fact been annoyed by some >moderation in the css-board, but my personal view is, that Eduard (and others) >have behaved in such a manner, that a moderation (and ban) was necessary. I very >much enjoy the posts by Eduard and think his contribution to computer chess are >invaluable but in a board one has to obey certain rules and as an administrator >one should bother that the board is not hijacked for personal matters. > >regards Joachim You make some basic faults in your analysis. 1) You argue as if the moderation of a privately opened board must function rationally. So you already knew that often it doesn't follow these lines in css. But you are wrong. Objectively they can do what they want. Period. 2) Now you may ask what could be my critic if point 1 were true. My (influenced by more or less science) point is that they don't follow their own sacred rules. I didn't see your link but let's assume you know something about charity. They accept the scapegoating process against particular members and THEN cry wolf if such a victimized member goes wrong. That is exactly the case with Eduard. Anonymous writers launch a flame against him, he over-reacts and Css says that was enough. That is the automatism. Know what I mean? This, what I called over-reaction does also include misunderstandings what was exactly said and so on. You know? There is simply a chessplayer. Nothing more than that. Let's not become too personal. A chessplayer with a good talent. And with the extra-hobby in computerchess. And now all, literally all what he shows is interesting for the community. Know what I mean? There is no point where someone could order a stop. Why? Another position with a stumbling FRITZ. What is wrong with that. 3) You confuse effect and cause. Cause for the mess is not Ed with his positions and his criticism against his beloved FRITZ. Cause is this scapegoating by brainless people who hate Eduard for all too human reasons. Certainly NOT his chess. If you would see it from this perspective you would praise CSS that sometimes they close their guest account because this way they avoid such launchings of evil-meaning people. But Eduard is NOT one of them. Know what I mean? Why do you confuse that? You support such victimzing? A pity. There are people who fit into each and every situation and there are others who cause opposition after a short time. That this is also a case of evil meaning character assassination could be well seen in my own case. I have written for almost two years under the name of 'Schachfan' in css and I had _never_ any problems. But as soon as some people - I could tell you from which direction - supposed that Schachfan could be me, my peaceful times were over. Again. If I personally were the reason as you insinuated, I couldn't have written for 2 years without a scandal. Do you understand the challenge that lies in my argumentation? What you said is all prejudice nothing else. That is my verdict. More, I can prove that I am personally NOT the reason, why then other people react with hatred on my messages. It's not in the messages. It's in the heads of these people. If I were a Jew I had a much better system of argumentation I tell you. 4) So what is your fault? That you don't see that those anonymous entries who launch negative flames must be deleted. NOT peaceful members who just write their opinions. Again. How can it be that the same messages are bad if from Rolf or Eduard, but good and tolerated if from Hagra, to name just one example. Hagra often says what I could also have written. Make no mistake I'm not hagra. :) 5) Can't you and all the important people in CSS understand that Eduard just wants to present his actual findings? A new chess position for a program? THis is on-topic and should be welcomed. What is wrong with that. Please elaborate. How could a chess position be wrong that is designed to test a specific chessprogram. Please elaborate.
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.