Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: A Last Try For Now * Give him a helping hand! Thanks.

Author: Rolf Tueschen

Date: 14:40:09 07/14/04

Go up one level in this thread


On July 14, 2004 at 16:35:16, CLiebert wrote:

>- wir haben uns stundenlang mit dem Thema bechäftigt. Das ist das was Du nicht
>weißt und nicht sehen willst! "Davonlaufen" hätte uns viel Zeit gespart...

Erst mal Dank für den Ansatz einer fairen Diskussion. Jetzt bin ich gespannt, ob
du wirklich bereit bist, auch Fehler einzusehen, wenn sie dir nachgewiesen
werden können. // Thanks for the beginning of a fair debate. It's interesting to
see if you are now really able to admit mistakes, if they can be proven.

>
RT:

>So steht es auch auf meiner Webseite. Du hast über Eduard in einer
>diffamierenden Weise gesprochen im Chor mit AS (einem praktizierem Juristen),
>die ich für abscheulich halte.

CL:
>
>- Das ist falsch. Wenn dann habe ich lediglich sein Verhalten zitiert.

Das ist unwahr! Ihr habt als Laien Pseudodiagnosen in psychiatrischen Jargon
abgegeben! // Wrong this is a falsehood. You two, CL and this lawyer AS have
written in CSS, as laymen, pseudo-diagnoses in psychiatric terminology!


CL:

>- wenn Du es so siehst?! Ich würde mir das auch verbieten. Aber man weiss ja aus
>diversen Fehl-Gutachten zu freigelassenen Rückfalltätern das Deine Zunft leider
>nicht selten auch irrt bei menschlichen Beurteilungen...


[English translation: if you see it this way! I wouldn't tolerate that either.
But one knows from some wrong nexpert reports about released criminals with
subsequent offences that not too seldomly you psychologists unfortunately make
mistakes in human judgements. ]


Christian,
do you really want to hold this incredibly villain insinuation? That you compare
what Eduard did and represents in computerchess with the cases of murderers or
rapists who always again commit crimes if offered new chances?
Are you really serious about such an allegation???

[German tranlation: Sag mal Christian, hast du eigentlich noch alle Tassen im
Schrank? Du vergleichst Eduard, meinetwegen mit allen seinen Fehlern, mit
Mördern und Vergewaltigern, wirklichen menschlichen Bestien, die rückfällig
geworden sind, nachdem Gutachter sie fälschlich für ungefährlich eingestuft
hatten???]

Christian,
you want to insinuate that if you would give Eduard new chances, that then hell
would break loose in a computerchess forum? That is exactly the evil allegation
you published with your pseudo psychiatry.

You should protect your own charter. And in that charter personal attacks,
abuses are forbidden. And if I beg you to follow your own rules and control
anonymous haters against Eduard, you answer that it is a pity but if one cannot
defend oneself that that is then bad luck??? Don't you realise what you are
admitting right now? That you can't do anything against abusive flames from
anonymous writers. Interesting, thank you.

[German translation: Christian, du behauptest, dass wenn ihr Eduard neue Chancen
gebt, dass dann die Hölle losgehen würden in CSS? Das is doch genau diese
schlimme Unterstellung, die auch in diesen pseudopsychiatrischen Beleidigungen
stecken, die AS und du in CSS gegen Eduard geschrieben habt.

Dabei sollst du doch nur eure eigene Charta befolgen. Persönliche Angriffe,
Mißbrauch sind verboten. Und wenn ich dich bitte, dass du Eduard gegen anonyme
Hasstiraden oder Provokationen verteidigen sollst, dass du also euren eigenen
Regeln folgen sollst, dann antwortest du einfach, Pech gehabt, Rolf, so ist das
nun mal im Leben, wer sich nicht selbst verteidigen kann, dem können wir auch
nicht helfen... Na toll, du rufst also zur Selbstjustiz auf??? Nein? Was soll
das denn sonst heissen? Es ist doch so, dass ihr sehr wohl gegen anonyme
Schreiber, die gegen ie Regeln verstossen, etwas unternehmen könnt! Ihr beweist
das mit zig Löschungen doch täglich. Weshalb geht das nicht, wenn Eduard
angegriffen wird, oder wie geschehen vor 3 Jahren 'Schachfan'?]



RT:

>But then, when he's writing again in your forum, please defend him if again
>anonymous opponents harrass him and handle that with your guest accounts.

CL:

>
>- we did it over a very long time. F.ex. by giving an anonymous account. But it
>doesn´t help. Forgotten?


Yes. Not forgotten but I didn't simply know that. You know, I had also an
anonymous account, only Friedel knew it. But when I told Steinwender in private
email that I was 'Schachfan', hell broke loose and anonymous "Peter"s and
Kästner and many others went berserk about the possibility that 'Schachfan' who
hadn't done anything to them could be me. Hear a bell ringing??


RT:

>
>But defend him so that he must not do this himself. What then always caused more
>agitation than necessary.

CL:


>- we can´t defend guests who can´t defend himself on the long run. You can´t be
>anywhere. Thats live. You should know it.


No, I dont agree. Of course you can do something against abusive behaviour. You
can also control anonymous accounts. You can block it. You can also explain to
the members, that you want to set an example. You would not give into the terror
of the "street" and that you would stand to Eduard. If you would have said that,
the cowards would disappear. But as long as theya know that you just wait and
that you when Eduard gets nervous and makes mistakes, that you then will throw
him out, THEN all theses cowards have a good motivation to bully Eduard into
hell. - Was that already too difficult for you? That is NOT rocket science. That
is completely common sense. You must not have studied psychology to understand
this. - Let me finally ask you if such a behaviour wouldn't look good for a
World-leading company??? Or do you think it's better to be famous for the
opposite. The lack of civil courage and the tolerating of scapegoating helpless
chess lovers???

I can't do anything. I tried my very best to convince you. But at last you must
make up your mind. I wished your heart would show you the way! Because then
suddenly all seems so easy! - Just give Eduard a helping hand and let him talk
again on CSS. Just try it. As you said, it's only a board-game. It's only chess
- and it's only GENS UNA SUMUS.

But this is now the end for me. I thank you very much for your willingness to
listen, I did also read carefully what you had written. I know that it's not
easy to change a group hystery. But you should try it. Life is too short to be
wasted with flame wars!

Best, Rolf

Perhaps we find another way to communicate about this topic. At the end I want
to thank CCC for its patience and tolerance. But we shouldn't exaggerate and
make this an habit to talk here in German all the time. Hope you agree. Perhaps
we get this to email if necessary. Thanks again.




>
>
>>Thanks.
>
>Doens´t metter!
>
>Best
>Christian



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.