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Subject: Re: Crafty and pondering

Author: Joachim Rang

Date: 11:58:22 07/20/04

Go up one level in this thread


On July 20, 2004 at 13:03:06, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On July 20, 2004 at 04:27:26, Peter Berger wrote:
>
>>On July 20, 2004 at 04:19:14, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>
>>>     Hi Graham
>>>     Is this a further proof that there is a significant
>>>     difference in playing strength of Crafty between
>>>     ponder=on/ponder=off. Should this indeed be the case
>>>     it would perhaps be better to cancel Crafty 19.15 SE
>>>     in our coming AT 2004 tournament. I do not like to
>>>     produce bad results for an engine when it is known
>>>     that our playing conditions (ponder=off) do handicap
>>>     Crafty.
>>>     Kurt [http://www.utzingerk.com]
>>
>>Volker Pittlik did an experiment some time ago:
>>http://www.pittlik.de/winboard/ponder.html
>>
>>I don't know a good reason why Crafty should be more handicapped by ponder=off
>>than other engines. If I were you I'd just start with the tournament - there
>>will always be other possible setups that some will prefer.
>
>
>There are two parts to time controls.
>
>1.  time per move.  If I know I am pondering, I also know I will save some time
>on ponder "hits".  Rather than letting this time accumulate and drive up the
>average time per move later in the game, when it might well already be decided,
>I can use some of this time _before_ I actually accumulate it, where important
>strategic/tactical decisions are being made.  With ponder=off, I can't do that
>and just have to use a static time per move, period.
>
>2.  Crafty handles certail fail-high/fail-low conditions differently depending
>on whether it is "ahead" or "behind" on time.  With no pondering, it will
>_never_ be "ahead" on time and will not spend extra time at positions where it
>seems to be important to do so.  With pondering on, it will accumulate extra
>time with pondering hits, and then it can use this extra time when it thinks it
>is necessary.
>
>It can play with pondering off.  It will play _better_ with pondering on.  How
>other programs deal with this is totally unknown, so there is no way to say that
>ponder=off hurts crafty more or less than it does other programs.  All I can say
>with 100% certainty is that ponder=off _does_ hurt Crafty overall.  And
>sometimes that can be significant.


Is there no way to implement different time management for ponder on and ponder
off?

regards Joachim



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