Author: Jorge Pichard
Date: 04:43:53 07/22/04
Go up one level in this thread
On July 22, 2004 at 06:16:57, Uri Blass wrote: >On July 22, 2004 at 03:47:42, George Sobala wrote: > >>On July 22, 2004 at 01:22:51, Sandro Necchi wrote: >> >>>On July 21, 2004 at 16:04:02, George Sobala wrote: >>> >>>>... I asked, "what would Kasparov do against the same opposition", not "what >>>>would Shredder 8 do against Kasparov". >>> >>>Yes, but that was not the real Shredder, but just the commercial version (one of >>>them as there is the UCI one which is stronger) and running on a slow computer. >>> >>>Sandro >> >> >>Sandro >> >>Let me start by explaining that I have *enormous* respect for Shredder as an >>engine, and for its programming team. >> >>As such a friend, I would caution you to be more careful with your choice of >>words, and you may wish to retract your last comment. Are you really claiming >>that the engine which you have sold to the world is "not the REAL Shredder"?? >> >>You have advertised it on www.chessbase.com as "Shredder 8 – Double World >>Champion 2003. For most computer chess experts Shredder is the number one >>choice. Nobody can ignore its amazing five computer chess world championship >>titles, won at Jakarta 1996, Paderborn 1999, London 2000, Maastricht 2001 and >>Graz 2003. So in the Shredder 8 box you have the reigning double world champion >>2003, ready to play and analyse with you." >> >>And now you tell us that actually it is not the REAL Shredder in the box! What >>is that noise I hear? Oh - it is the sound of lawyers hyperventilating with >>excitement. >> >>Furthermore, the above is completely irrelevant to my point. I am sure you can >>coax extra performance from Shredder with extra tweaks, processors and killer >>books. So what? It is the commercial version running on a lowly AMD 1200 that >>has an SSDF score of 2818. The same commercial version (on FASTER hardware) has >>a TPR less than 2600 in a tournament. >> >>SSDF!=ELO >> >>Some of us already knew that, but many didn't. > >It does not prove nothing. > >I think that for a real rating the players should not be allowed to buy the >program in the first place like they cannot buy human opponents. > Commercial programs are meant to be sold :-) >If somebody is interested in the real rating of some chess program then the >first step is to agree that the the programmer is not allowed to sell the >program or to release a free version of it and opponents can prepare against the >program only by watching previous games of the program and not by using the >program to play or analyze. If a programmer wants to find out the real strength of his program in comparison to strong humans GM, he or the team should test his program against a team of players like the Argentinian before it is released, not after, and in that case the weakeness of the program nor its opening responses would not ne anticipated in advanced. Jorge >It means that we will never be able to find the real Fide rating of commercial >chess programs or freeware programs. > >Uri
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