Author: Bryan Hofmann
Date: 12:26:36 07/27/04
Go up one level in this thread
On July 27, 2004 at 14:57:02, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On July 27, 2004 at 13:32:54, Ingo Bauer wrote: > >>Hi >> >>>>Second round with Crafty having black just started and of course I deleted all >>>>learning values from the previous round! >>> >>>Not sure for the reasoning for doing this. Humans are not allowed to learn >>>anything when they play white and lose, so that they can use that information >>>when playing black??? >> >>Of course I delete the learning for both engines!!! All I wanted to do is having >>the same clean start for both engines. The engine that is having white would >>have the possibility to learn something for its "black" game that the other >>engine could not do when having black first. > >That logic is broken. If an engine plays black, it learns for "both sides". If >an engine is white, the same thing holds. Disabling learning seems wrong, since >it is a part of each engine, depending on how well it is implemented. Tuning >bits of a program on or off on a whim seems somehow wrong unless the goal is >_not_ to measure the strength of the entire "entity" but rather to measure the >strength of a subset... > > > (And, yes the black-first engine >>could learn something for its white game, but who knows if that is identical?) >> >>>Why not just disable learning completely? >> >>Yep, you are right here. I could (and should) have done this. Have not thought >>about it but do you think that deleting it after each round is doing any harm? I >>am pretty sure that does not matter. I will do it for future games. > >For "Nunn matches" I don't think it matters since in theory, the same position >will not be reached twice since each opening is different. > >However, the idea of keeping learning active makes sense since each program >plays the same opening from both sides. What it learns from one side ought to >influence it when it plays the other side, like a human... > I'll add it does exactly that! Here is a small test I did with Crafty dealing with the Learn off vs on. I ran a 5/2 match Crafty 19.15 vs Ruffian 1.0.5 using the Nunn I & II openings and mirroring them so both engines played each opening as White & Black. As you can see there is a 65 point difference in strength. Since there were no books used in this match this represents the strength difference of position learning only. Crafty 19.15 Learn Off - Ruffian 1.0.5 : 17.5/60 9-34-17 (==1=0000==000==00==110000000==010=1001010=01=00=0=0000=00100) Elo : -154 Margins : 68 % : (+ 47,- 33) -> [-187,-107] 95 % : (+ 90,- 70) -> [-224, -64] 99.7 % : (+131,-112) -> [-266, -23] Crafty 19.15 Learn On - Ruffian 1.0.5 : 22.5/60 13-28-19 (=0==0100==01==01==010=000000===101=011110=01==1=0=0000010000) Elo : -89 Margins : 68 % : (+ 39,- 37) -> [-126, -50] 95 % : (+ 76,- 78) -> [-166, -13] 99.7 % : (+113,-123) -> [-211, 24]
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