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Subject: Re: Dual Core PPC970 in 2005 (OT)

Author: Tord Romstad

Date: 09:15:21 07/28/04

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On July 28, 2004 at 10:17:37, Anthony Cozzie wrote:

>On July 28, 2004 at 04:44:51, Tord Romstad wrote:
>
>>On July 27, 2004 at 13:52:49, Anthony Cozzie wrote:
>>
>>>Perhaps that is a bit extreme :)  There really aren't that many parallel
>>>programs out there:
>>>
>>>The Baron (dual only), Crafty, Diep, Fritz, Junior, Sjeng, Shredder, SOS, Zappa
>>>(very little testing)
>>
>>Amy, Hydra, Nejmet.  I am sure there are others, but I can't remember any at
>>the moment.
>
>Hmm, I didn't know Amy and Nejmet were parallel.  Do you know what method they
>use?

No, I don't, but I'm fairly sure they are both parallel.

>>I don't doubt that it is very difficult (although "one of the most difficult
>>programming tasks out there" is a pretty extreme claim)
>
>Well, first we must define "programming task" :)  I do not include algorithms in
>this description.

OK, that makes the claim a bit less extreme.  :-)

>In other words, I mean: given an algorithm, create machine
>code (through compilers if necessary) that implements it.  In my opinion,
>parallel algorithms are many times more difficult than serial algorithms,

Of course.

>and alpha beta search is one of the more difficult ones.

I find this a bit hard to believe, but I suppose I am not the right person
to speak with authority until I have given it a try myself.  My impression
of computer chess in general so far is that everything is relatively easy
to implement (otherwise I wouldn't even have managed to write my program
in C), but that finding good ideas is very difficult.  I find most of the
computer algebra stuff I do to be more difficult to implement than computer
chess algorithms by at least an order of maginitude.  It is possible that
trying to implement a parallel alpha beta search will change my mind about
this, but so far I doubt it.

The bottom line is probably that we are both too young and inexperienced
to judge which programming tasks are the most difficult.  Let's meet and
discuss it again in 30 years or so.  :-)

>, but I think the
>>small number of parallel programs has to do with lack of interest as well as
>>difficulty.  How many programmers have tried to parallelize their engines?
>>I doubt that the list would be much longer than the list of successful
>>implementations above.
>
>I think that is mainly due to a lack of access to dual machines.  Most of the
>people who tried have been the ones with reasonably strong programs already,

Yes, otherwise it would obviously be a waste of time.  Unless you already
have a very strong program, there are easier and better ways to improve than
adding parallel search.

>and no one who failed would be talking about it ;)

I am not so sure about this.  It seems reasonable that some of those who
try to write a parallel program would ask lots of questions here in the
process.  If there were a lot of failed attempts to implement a parallel
search out there, we should have seen many such questions from people
who never managed to finish their task.

Tord





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