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Subject: Re: question about fixing the time management of movei

Author: Sune Fischer

Date: 16:20:59 07/29/04

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On July 29, 2004 at 19:02:49, Uri Blass wrote:

>On July 29, 2004 at 18:30:26, Sune Fischer wrote:
>
>>On July 29, 2004 at 11:44:39, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>"more complicated" != "more advanced".  I don't believe it is possible to
>>>accurately forecast the time for the next iteration.  Which means when is it
>>>appropriate to do that quick nullwindow search?
>>
>>I can't pridict when a check extension is wasted and when it is useful either, I
>>can only say if it works better or worse on average.
>>
>>> And when you do it and it
>>>returns way quicker than you expected, what do you do with the remaining time?
>>>
>>>There appear to be more problems this way than with what I currently do...
>>
>>Simple != Good
>
>I agree and not agree.
>
>I agree that simple does not have to be good but I also think that exactly the
>same thing can be more simple if it is a good code and less simple if it is a
>bad code.
>
>For example it is possible to have in many places in the code some conditions
>like:
>if ((a-b)*p<=c) when a,b,p,c global varaibles and
>a=The time now
>b=time of starting the search
>p=the expected brancing factor
>c=time that is too big to start a new iteration.
>
>In my case I had some significant names but they still did not do the code easy
>to understand.

:)

You should consider the context. Bob insinuated it was a bad idea because it was
more complicated than what he did.

By the same argument TSCP should be a better chess engine than Crafty, which it
isn't, so obviously we must have Simple != Good, or should I say Simpler !=
Better.

>It is also possible to have some code
>if (time_next_iteration_is_too_big())
>when the functions time_next_iteration_is_too_big() is defined in time.cpp and
>is using static varaibles that only that file knows.
>
>I think that the second solution is more simple inspite of the fact that the
>algorithm is the same and I am now working on modification in movei to do the
>code more simple without changing the time management algorithm.
>
>
>>
>>(I can play that game too:)
>>
>>>>But you have not tested what I'm suggesting.
>>>
>>>I have definitely tested doing a fail-low search.  You can find references to
>>>that back in 1978 which was when I finally dumped the idea of "don't start the
>>>next iteration if I don't believe it can be finished..."
>>
>>Then why did it not work, which part failed, what is your analysis?
>>
>>>>
>>>>>Your "assumption" is based on facts that have tons of contradictory evidence (IE
>>>>>I _have_ done lots of testing and reported on it many times in various ways.)
>>>>
>>>>AFAIK it was a completely new spin on an old idea.
>>>
>>>There's nothing new about the null-window search at all.  As I said, in 1980
>>>_every_ search I did started with a null-window search.  As did Belle's...
>>
>>Don't mix two experiments here, I'm not talking about starting every search with
>>a nullwindow...
>
>Note only that if you start some search with null move window it is not only a
>change in time management.

I don't really see the point in doing it a all plies though.

For the first plies you are definitely interested in an exact score so
eventually you will need to open the window, a nullwindow search will introduce
some overhead. You have to find some way to make it save some nodes somewhere.

It makes more sense at places where you only want a yes-no answer, such as the
last ply where you only want to know if you fail-low or not.

>I believe that it can be a good idea to do it but I am now interested only in
>changes in time management so I do not plan to test it in the near future.

Yeah, anything is possible :)

>Uri
-S.



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