Author: chandler yergin
Date: 12:43:11 07/30/04
Go up one level in this thread
On July 30, 2004 at 13:25:39, Uri Blass wrote: >On July 30, 2004 at 12:12:55, chandler yergin wrote: > >>On July 29, 2004 at 19:10:51, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On July 29, 2004 at 18:44:47, chandler yergin wrote: >>> >>>>On July 29, 2004 at 13:13:28, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On July 29, 2004 at 08:04:48, chandler yergin wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On July 28, 2004 at 20:01:58, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On July 28, 2004 at 19:56:03, Robin Smith wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Intersting position and mis-evaluation by Fritz. Fritz has trouble with many >>>>>>>>rook pawn and wrong color bishop positions. Can you please give how the game >>>>>>>>ended? After a5 it should still be a draw, but White can't wait too much longer >>>>>>>>to get to the h1 square. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Robin >>>>>>> >>>>>>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?379533 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>If the game ended that way then it seems that the players clearly did not use >>>>>>>Fritz to help them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Uri >>>>>> >>>>>>Burkett DID Use Fritz! >>>>>>That's all he has, and I am in daily contact with him. >>>>>>His annotations after the game, inserted in the notes, was also by Fritz. >>>>>> >>>>>>The Full game, and analysis is posted in my reply to Robin. >>>>>>Chan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>If I am not wrong Burkett was black when white blundered by missing a6 with a >>>>>draw. >> >>Correct Burkett was Black and White blundered. >> >>>>> >>>>>Uri >>>> >>>> >>>>Burkett was white! >> >> >> >>>>Theyn both missed the Draw... so did Fritz! >>>>That's my point.. >>> >>>based on the pgn he was black >> >>Of course..sorry! >>> >>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?379533 >>> >>>It is not important if black missed the draw but if white missed the draw. >> >>It's important that Black missed it, because he was the one that annotated the >>game. >> >>White missed the Draw, as originally Posted. >>Missed it twice in fact. >>Black also missed it, as it was not mentioned in the original game Notes, but >>added after, when I pointed it out to the players. >> >> >>> >>>Fritz could find the drawing move Kc4 instead of a6. >> >>It didn't, that's the point! >> >>>White could not find it so the fact is that white played worse than Fritz. >> >>The point of the original Post! >>Neither player OR Fritz found it! >> >> >>> >>>The fact that Fritz could not see the draw is not important to justify mistakes >>>because it could find the correct moves. >> >>Well it Didn't! > >It did > >I already posted analysis by Fritz8 when it could find Kc4(not with a draw >score) >see http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?379580 > >> >>I think it is extremly important that Fritz did not see the Draw either time! > >I think that programs that see the draw may also have illusions about draws when >there is no draw. > >It is not safe to evaluate king near the right corner and wrong bishop as a draw >because the weaker side may lose by zugzwang when he must play with the g pawn >and the pawn go from file h to file g. > >It was not relevant in the game because there was no pawn in the g file but it >is only to demonstrate that the problem is not so easy from programming point >and programs that say 0.00 also may be wrong in different positions. > >>Players relied on it's analysis, rather than thinking on their own, and >>missed it. >> >>Robin also pointed out the Fritz problem in this game, although Crafty, Hiarchs, >>and other Engines found it immediately. >>Why are you defending Fritz? >>This is a good Test Position for Engines! > >I am defending Fritz because Fritz found the right move Kc4 instead of a6 that >was played in the game based on analysis that I posted and I am not sure if >engines that show 0.00 will not also show 0.00 in positions when the weaker side >is losing by zugzwang. > >Fritz is at least better than Movei that cannot find Kc4 and suggest the move >that was played in the game(a6) after half an hour. > >Uri I'm defending Humans. We can see it, as obvious. Some Engines can.. some can't, some take more time. OK? ;) CY
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