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Subject: Re: What Prog does Kasparov think is best?

Author: Thom Perry

Date: 11:18:13 12/31/98

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On December 31, 1998 at 13:30:25, Lanny DiBartolomeo wrote:

>On December 31, 1998 at 13:04:48, Thom Perry wrote:
>
>>On December 31, 1998 at 11:44:53, Lanny DiBartolomeo wrote:
>>
>>>On December 31, 1998 at 07:48:33, Thom Perry wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 30, 1998 at 16:40:15, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 30, 1998 at 04:18:11, Reynolds Takata wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On December 30, 1998 at 03:45:52, blass uri wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On December 30, 1998 at 03:04:51, Reynolds Takata wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What i was reffering to is pure chess strength, if you want to say pure chess
>>>>>>>>strength of a program against kasparov specifically well that would be perfectly
>>>>>>>>satisfactory with me :).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It is not clear to me what is pure chess strength.
>>>>>>>The strength of a program is different in different time control or in different
>>>>>>>openings.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Blass do you want to try to answer this question or just keep trying to come up
>>>>>>with a question yourself?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>What he is saying is that you are searching for the 'holy grail' of computer
>>>>>chess, and it probably doesn't exist in the form you desire.  Programs are all
>>>>>different.  They play differently at different time controls, in different
>>>>>openings, and in different types of games/positions.  You can ask a dozen GM
>>>>>players on ICC which program gives _them_ the most trouble in blitz, and get
>>>>>a dozen different answers, some surprising.  For bullet you will get probably
>>>>>a different answer.  And for those that play longer games you will get still
>>>>>different answers.  And if you look at the "tactical" IM/GM players you will
>>>>>get a different answer than you will from the "quiet/positional" GM players.
>>>>>
>>>>>So *any* program could be the right answer to your question.  Or the wrong
>>>>>one...
>>>>
>>>>Extremely well said, Robert, and what you are saying is absolutely correct, I am
>>>>sure.  The reason for so many arguments on this board is the "My program is the
>>>>'holy grail' of chess" mentality that prevails when someone dares to suggest
>>>>that their pet program is not flawless.  Notice the rash of messages questioning
>>>>the testers whenever a new SSDF rating list is issued:  "Gee, are you sure you
>>>>tested my program correctly?  Duh, it isn't number one on the list."
>>>
>>>I don't think he is asking which program is the strongest I believe he was
>>>asking which program Garry Kasparov thought was the strongest based on different
>>>informations that people heard.
>>
>>Regardless, I totally agreed with Robert's assessment regarding the current
>>state of chess programs.  His "Holy Grail" theory explains a lot of the problems
>>on this board.  Look at the current SSDF list and the difference between #1 and
>>#5 on the list.  According to statistical theory, Fritz 5.0's real rating could
>>be as low as 2542, whereas Hiarc 6.0's real rating could be as high as 2549.
>>Would anyone that really knows statistics want to really argue which program is
>>actually higher rated as measured by the current SSDF test procedures?
>
>Yes I see truth in this statement also, but I didn't understand the responses
>and was wondering how they fit here in this post.

Yeah, I'm getting mixed up, too.  I'm bowing out of this thread.



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